Video, poison keris blade

[PenangsangII]

The keris is dipped into poison solution called baceman (snake head pickles mixed with human faeces) just before battle or fight. So, the poison would still be working. In the Peninsula, keris is sometimes hardened by dipping the red hot blade into upas / poison solution. The effect if stabbed by it is still a mystery though......

[Bill S]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

The keris is dipped into poison solution called baceman (snake head pickles mixed with human faeces) just before battle or fight. So, the poison would still be working.

There are a few possible flaws in this theory. First, pickled snake heads would not be an effective poison. Snake venom would only be "still working" if the venom were extracted from the venom glands and put on the blade and used while still fresh. Pickling the heads does not do this. The human feces would definitely cause infection - but such infection would only set in days after a person was stabbed in battle and would not have any effect on the battlefield. And I've got doubts as to how many people keep jars of pickled snake heads and feces around the house.

This scenario also assumes that the keris was a battlefield weapon. I think there is plenty of support for its use as a weapon of personal defense/offense. But as a battlefield weapon it would fall short, and I'm not aware of its use in this context.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

The keris is dipped into poison solution called baceman (snake head pickles mixed with human faeces) just before battle or fight. So, the poison would still be working. In the Peninsula, keris is sometimes hardened by dipping the red hot blade into upas / poison solution. The effect if stabbed by it is still a mystery though......

The only part of that formula which would work is the upas toxin, however if you applied the toxin to a redhot blade then I'm not so sure the toxin would survive that.
As for the snake venom, it usually has to be stored in a fridge to survive so pickled snakes head would not do much.

Originally Posted by Bill S

This scenario also assumes that the keris was a battlefield weapon. I think there is plenty of support for its use as a weapon of personal defense/offense. But as a battlefield weapon it would fall short, and I'm not aware of its use in this context.

True, the keris is actually not a very good weapon, a sword would be far better. I think the Kris is an improvement on the Keris as a weapon.

[A. G. Maisey]

For many, many years we have heard it repeated that the keris is not a particularly effective weapon.

I would suggest that used in the way and situation in which it is intended to be used, it is in fact an extremely effective weapon.

Comparison of a keris to a sword is pointless, as both have a different purpose.

A guitar string is a very effective weapon.

So is an AK47.

But both have different methods of application, and are used for different purposes.

[David]

Thanks for your statements here Alan, i was about to pose a very similar response.
I properly wielded keris can be a very deadly weapon, at least as effective as any other edged weapon in it's size class. No, it's not a big slashing sword like the Moro kris, but in a tight space like a hallway the Indo keris would probably be much better choice. It's stealthier and quicker too. Really depends on the situation.

[PenangsangII]

I have similar points to that of Alan's & David's.

In fact, in a modern home, esp an apartment, keris would be perfect. In the case of SE Asia, Indo / Malay in particular, keris has a psychological effect beyond comprehension. Here, in Malay case, if somebody run towards me with a pedang or parang in his hand, I wouldnt be as afraid as if the assailant is armed with keris or badik.

Regarding the poison / venom theory, the keris is only dipped into poison when the fight or battle is impending, so the theory still holds water, I think

[Marcokeris]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

For many, many years we have heard it repeated that the keris is not a particularly effective weapon.

I would suggest that used in the way and situation in which it is intended to be used, it is in fact an extremely effective weapon.

Comparison of a keris to a sword is pointless, as both have a different purpose.

A guitar string is a very effective weapon.

So is an AK47.

But both have different methods of application, and are used for different purposes.

Not only a guitar string but also a thought can be a very effective weapon

[Amuk Murugul]

Hullo Everybody,

Sorry for joining in late.
I can add a little to what others have said. Maybe someone can also take it from there.

When I was being 'traditionally socialized'(= Patilasan Karoehoen) in Tatar Soenda in the early 1950's, I was told various stories about how people put 'poison' on their weapons, depending on the purpose.
Anything from the poison from a scorpion, or from a tree frog, to the 'bodily fluids' produced by a cadaver just before it is cleaned for burial (and cocktails thereof).
If one needed something of a more 'supernatural' nature, one would need to supplement the poison by sticking the weapon in some holy/hallowed ground and meditating (focusing on the intent while mentally reciting mantras) uninterruptedly until completion.
Sometimes this would only need one night's ( dusk to dawn) meditation.

Of course there was the 'easy' way; just get a doekoen or expert to do it for you.

Best

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by Amuk Murugul

If one needed something of a more 'supernatural' nature, one would need to supplement the poison by sticking the weapon in some holy/hallowed ground and meditating (focusing on the intent while mentally reciting mantras) uninterruptedly until completion.
Sometimes this would only need one night's ( dusk to dawn) meditation.

Sounds like Voodoo magic. Since we are on the subject of poisonous effects of the keris I guess it counts. Another way to use a keris in a similar way is to use mental focus/intention whilst pointing it at an opponents marma. There are 32 points which can be effected in such a way.

[David]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Sounds like Voodoo magic. Since we are on the subject of poisonous effects of the keris I guess it counts. Another way to use a keris in a similar way is to use mental focus/intention whilst pointing it at an opponents marma. There are 32 points which can be effected in such a way.

As one who has also spent a fair amount of time studying Caribbean Vodoun i will say that i have found quite of lot of similarities between magickal practices there with those of Bali. I can't say for other areas of Indonesia. It should be noted that these magickal practices, for the most part, take place within the framework of Vodoun culture, but outside the practice of the religion itself. But i digress....