Kopis/khopsh etc. - Egyptian swords

tom hyle · 23rd March 2005, 12:25 PM

Stone edged swords are typically made of wood, antler, etc. Thus with the one in my shady memory (the main problem is that it is a memory of a drawing, with possibly multiple interpretations). They are a widespread artifact of the past.
I'm not sure, Kamil, what you're trying to say; I don't think I'm following you. You tell me the spellings are from Egypt, then that they're not, then that they are? Perhaps you are objecting to me calling Egypt a province? Or perhaps you didn't understand that that's what I was doing? Province, country; I wasn't being technical enough, I suppose, but I didn't want to raise the idea of nationalisma again. Provincialism per se is only nationalism writ small though.....and it is exactly the attitude that breeds the ignorance whereby one small area can claim to have the "correct spelling" (for instance) of a widespread word that is spelled variously in various regions, an idea which, quite understandably, can be offensive and disrespectful to the people of those regions, as well as being factually/logically false. (because what makes one tribe's spelling more correct than anothers? Usually the determining factor is which tribe the speaker comes from or has made a special study of....)

Kamil · 23rd March 2005, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom hyle

I'm not sure, Kamil, what you're trying to say; I don't think I'm following you. You tell me the spellings are from Egypt, then that they're not, then that they are? Perhaps you are objecting to me calling Egypt a province? Or perhaps you didn't understand that that's what I was doing? Province, country;

Tom,
this time I'm not following you... I tried to say that the word khepesh is Egyptian one and that only the spelling "khepesh" is correct - not "khopsh" etc.
Perhaps I haven't understood you properly. In terms of Egyptology "provincial" means "relating to/coming from province, ie. area situated far away from the capital city". In this sense the word cannot be named "provincial". BTW Nationalism has nothing to do here, I suppose. I'm not Egyptian so your remarks are not offensive for me. However I'm Egyptologist and my point of view is Egyptological one.

tom hyle · 24th March 2005, 01:23 AM

[QUOTE=tom hyle: Usually the determining factor is which tribe the speaker comes from or has made a special study of....)[/QUOTE]

I think I explained my misuse of "provincialism" quite thoroughly, though I left out that in the N American English language it has slightly different connotations than nationalism, other than just the size of the defining body (nation/province), and people seem so prickly around here concerning the word nationalism....

To say a spelling is nationalistic implies that it is defended out of pride in nation. To say it is provincial carries more of the idea that its sense of sole validity is based on ignorance of matters in far places; the assumption that whatever is around you is "it".......all there is; all that matters; all that's proper.....This is at the heart of "proper spelling" "proper dress" "decent haircut" and other such concepts. Further, it is not exclusively used in a political/geogrphic literal sense, but can refer to conceptual provinces, such as sociology, Egyptology, etc.
I'm not sure why you keep talking about Arabic as if you were contradicting me? All I said about Arabic is it is Afrasian and I don't know if it has vowels. All I said about Hebrew is it is Afrasian and doesn't have vowels (though I think there may now be a new version that does have; how accepted/widespread it is I don't know.

tom hyle · 24th March 2005, 02:31 AM

One little thing I'm not sure everyone gets; I think it's relevant not to the topic of swords but to the topic of how to talk to each other; of course, someone is holding the knife and the melon (great expression; very clear) so I guess that person will decide relevance for the rest of you: the things I say about tribalism and elitism that some people find so offensive and odd are, if you check back, mostly in response to statements assuming the "normal" human attitudes on these matters (that they are either fine and dandy or not really occuring); those attitudes are at least as equally offensive to me; they are the ones under which I have been crushed all my life.

Andrew · 24th March 2005, 02:48 AM

Quite a frolic and detour this thread has taken. If anyone still cares to discuss Kopis/khopsh etc., please start a new thread.

Tom, you have a PM.

Thread locked.

23rd March 2005, 12:25 PM	#1
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Stone edged swords are typically made of wood, antler, etc. Thus with the one in my shady memory (the main problem is that it is a memory of a drawing, with possibly multiple interpretations). They are a widespread artifact of the past. I'm not sure, Kamil, what you're trying to say; I don't think I'm following you. You tell me the spellings are from Egypt, then that they're not, then that they are? Perhaps you are objecting to me calling Egypt a province? Or perhaps you didn't understand that that's what I was doing? Province, country; I wasn't being technical enough, I suppose, but I didn't want to raise the idea of nationalisma again. Provincialism per se is only nationalism writ small though.....and it is exactly the attitude that breeds the ignorance whereby one small area can claim to have the "correct spelling" (for instance) of a widespread word that is spelled variously in various regions, an idea which, quite understandably, can be offensive and disrespectful to the people of those regions, as well as being factually/logically false. (because what makes one tribe's spelling more correct than anothers? Usually the determining factor is which tribe the speaker comes from or has made a special study of....) Last edited by tom hyle; 23rd March 2005 at 12:58 PM.

24th March 2005, 01:23 AM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	[QUOTE=tom hyle: Usually the determining factor is which tribe the speaker comes from or has made a special study of....)[/QUOTE] I think I explained my misuse of "provincialism" quite thoroughly, though I left out that in the N American English language it has slightly different connotations than nationalism, other than just the size of the defining body (nation/province), and people seem so prickly around here concerning the word nationalism.... To say a spelling is nationalistic implies that it is defended out of pride in nation. To say it is provincial carries more of the idea that its sense of sole validity is based on ignorance of matters in far places; the assumption that whatever is around you is "it".......all there is; all that matters; all that's proper.....This is at the heart of "proper spelling" "proper dress" "decent haircut" and other such concepts. Further, it is not exclusively used in a political/geogrphic literal sense, but can refer to conceptual provinces, such as sociology, Egyptology, etc. I'm not sure why you keep talking about Arabic as if you were contradicting me? All I said about Arabic is it is Afrasian and I don't know if it has vowels. All I said about Hebrew is it is Afrasian and doesn't have vowels (though I think there may now be a new version that does have; how accepted/widespread it is I don't know. Last edited by tom hyle; 24th March 2005 at 02:34 AM.

24th March 2005, 02:31 AM	#4
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	One little thing I'm not sure everyone gets; I think it's relevant not to the topic of swords but to the topic of how to talk to each other; of course, someone is holding the knife and the melon (great expression; very clear) so I guess that person will decide relevance for the rest of you: the things I say about tribalism and elitism that some people find so offensive and odd are, if you check back, mostly in response to statements assuming the "normal" human attitudes on these matters (that they are either fine and dandy or not really occuring); those attitudes are at least as equally offensive to me; they are the ones under which I have been crushed all my life.

24th March 2005, 02:48 AM	#5
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	Quite a frolic and detour this thread has taken. If anyone still cares to discuss Kopis/khopsh etc., please start a new thread. Tom, you have a PM. Thread locked.