Ethnographic Arms & Armour
 

Go Back   Ethnographic Arms & Armour > Discussion Forums > Ethnographic Weapons
FAQ Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 7th March 2008, 07:41 PM   #1
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,192
Default

"...or art thou a dagger of the mind, a false creation
proceeding from heat oppressed brain?"
MacBeth II, i.33
The effects of heat on weapons and armour is very much a reality.

I agree with Chris, Gav's observation is very well placed. I do know that many edged weapons had steel hilts covered with leather for this, as one reason. In the 19th century, many of the steel hilts on the sabres worn by horsemen in the heat of the Mexican deserts were covered with sewn leather covers. This is also true of British 'colonial' swords, in desert regions of India such as the Punjab and Sind, the steel hilts also had leather covers. I once had a British WWI pattern 1908 cavalry sword with a huge steel bowl hilt. This was one used by General Allenby's cavalry in the campaigns in the Middle East, and the hilt was covered in sewn leather.
It is also suggested that the purpose of these leather covered hilts was to prevent accidental glints or reflection from the sun revealing positions of cavalry, however that seems unlikely as the clatter of horse trappings and thunder of hooves in mass, the dust stirred not withstanding, would be more likely to reveal such presence.

As to armour in the Crusades and Middle East, in fact to ancient times, the effects of heat on the wearer is a very real, however not often discussed, reality.

"...the heat of summer made the armour insupportable and exposed the wearer to the dangers of suffocation and apoplexy, or produced at least, such debility as to disable him from wielding his weapons".
"The History of Chivalry and Armour"
Dr. F.Kottenkamp, 1850

"...the real problem with armour was not its weight but the way it trapped heat. Body heat resulting from battle exertion could prove fatal. At the Battle of Agincourt (1415) the Duke of York seems to have died of a heart attack brought on by 'the heat of battle'.
"Brasseys Book of Body Armour"
Robert Wasasnam-Savage,2000, p.70

"...it is one of the mysteries in the history of armour, how the crusaders can have fought under the scorching sun of the East in thick quilted garments covered with excessively heavy chain mail".
-Brittanica, p.392

None of these resources reveals any particular means of resolving the obviously well established problem of heat and its effect on the armoured individual, but these references do acknowledge awareness of it.

As for the sword, the covering of the hilt in leather does seem to be intended to reduce the obvious effects of hot steel in these cases.However with the leather covered hilts of the takouba swords of the Tuareg, the purpose is basically apotropaic, as it is a taboo for them to touch iron.

A very interesting perspective, and well represented by this 'mummified' sword

All best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2008, 08:23 PM   #2
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,843
Default

This looks like West African as mentioned before. The markings on what is left of the leather is a dead give alway as is the sack cloth bulk of the scabbard and handle. You can find cardboard, scrap silk and other materials for this purpuse. As for the the blade travalling all the way from Zanibar, is a little romantic when one considers the trade in west Africa, the trade coast. Especially as we do appear to be looking at a trade blade. Where this blade originated is a little more tricky to be sure of. Britain, Denmark, Holland, France,Germany, Spain? all had a finger in the pie. That sounds quite unpleasant.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2008, 08:54 PM   #3
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
This looks like West African as mentioned before. The markings on what is left of the leather is a dead give alway as is the sack cloth bulk of the scabbard and handle. You can find cardboard, scrap silk and other materials for this purpuse. As for the the blade travalling all the way from Zanibar, is a little romantic when one considers the trade in west Africa, the trade coast. Especially as we do appear to be looking at a trade blade. Where this blade originated is a little more tricky to be sure of. Britain, Denmark, Holland, France,Germany, Spain? all had a finger in the pie. That sounds quite unpleasant.
Hi Tim,
In looking at the scabbard cap and reviewing certain items that were Manding, it does seem that the segmented leather in rounded and raised bands do correspond. The parallel bands on the scabbard in review also do seem to suggest Manding as Ariel has noted.The degraded remains of what appears an 'X' geometric does appear on the chape also. I think this strengthens the case for West African, though I am still a bit puzzled by the reptilian skin, a Nilotic tendancy. I suppose we need to consider the possibility of use of another reptile skin, perhaps snake? and whether West African weapons used such coverings.

I didnt mean to suggest that the blade came from Zanzibar, actually I was referring to the Omani weapon influence. It is true that West Africa had profound trade, just as did East Africa in Red Sea ports and Zanzibar. The slave trade in Sudan and trade routes through the interior that had some degree of origin in Zanzibar did intersect in regions that also experienced major routes headed westward.
I think the West African trade was more maritime and European influenced than from the East African Omani Sultanate in Zanzibar, which is why I feel the Omani weapon influence travelled, in relay sense by confluence of trade routes, tribal interface, and nomadic contact in desert regions. This same dynamic, from west to east, is where I discussed in 2003, the movement of the Moroccan s'boula through Ethiopian regions and to Zanzibar.
The trade blades that early were found with these triple fullers were usually German, and from Solingen, however this blade appears native made, in the type found in the Sudanese kaskara. The origin of this blade may well be from many regions from Sudan to Sahara, and as I have noted, has nothing to do with Zanzibar.

As I also noted, there are swords of a type that use kaskara type blades in Sierra Leone, and have guardless hilt, but are different than this in that they are more rondel type (as in the Nepalese kora, but obviously I am not suggesting a link, simply noting the similarity).
I do agree that you and Ariel present a very good case for western regions of Africa, probably Saharan for this sword.

All best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2008, 09:38 PM   #4
Tim Simmons
Member
 
Tim Simmons's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: What is still UK
Posts: 5,843
Default

It could be a native blade. Or perhaps native finished. I would not like to suggest that native smiths were lacking. However it does appear to me that it is steel that has been through the mill so to speak, I could well be wrong. It is also more than possible that trade went east west as much as west east. Zanzibar is a long way away from Mali and the "Manding".

Last edited by Tim Simmons; 7th March 2008 at 09:51 PM.
Tim Simmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2008, 10:55 PM   #5
spiral
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,712
Default

Looks Ok to me Bill, Id vote for north west Africam myself.....

Heres what I am told by those that specilise is an old Taureg Jambiya showing use of moniter or lizard skin & a lovely springy hollow forged blade.
So reptile skin doesnt apear to be just Sudan Nile regions, from what I can see.

spiral

spiral is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2008, 11:09 PM   #6
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by spiral
Looks Ok to me Bill, Id vote for north west Africam myself.....

Heres what I am told by those that specilise is an old Taureg Jambiya showing use of moniter or lizard skin & a lovely springy hollow forged blade.
So reptile skin doesnt apear to be just Sudan Nile regions, from what I can see.

spiral

Nice work Spiral! Thats what I needed to hear. Now it would seem all the evidence is toward West Africa.
Thank you for posting that,
All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 7th March 2008, 11:20 PM   #7
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Simmons
It could be a native blade. Or perhaps native finished. I would not like to suggest that native smiths were lacking. However it does appear to me that it is steel that has been through the mill so to speak, I could well be wrong. It is also more than possible that trade went east west as much as west east. Zanzibar is a long way away from Mali and the "Manding".
Hi Tim,
The native smiths in North Africa were actually very good, especially the Hausa, however this blade seems more modern and as you note, pretty rough. You're right about the vast distance from Zanzibar to Mali. When studying trade routes though, it gets more amazing as we find the phenomenon of networking, which accounts for seemingly impossible connections. The diffusion of influence is quite subtle from what I can understand, and I have often been surprised when certain weapon forms show up in extremely unlikely places.
A guardless weapon in many cases may have been furbished as such simply because the native fabricator may have only had a blade and simply contrived a rudimentary handle on it.

Best regards,
Jim
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2008, 01:21 AM   #8
Chris Evans
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 685
Default

Jim,

Thank you for those very informative quotations on heat and armour. It must have been a huge problem.

Cheers
Chris
Chris Evans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 8th March 2008, 01:38 AM   #9
Jim McDougall
Arms Historian
 
Jim McDougall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Route 66
Posts: 10,192
Default

You're very welcome Chris, and thank you for acknowledging my notes. I recalled having looked into this topic some time ago in a discussion, and somehow actually found some of my notes. It was a very key problem, and like so many logistical problems associated with battles and armoured combat, something seldom included in historical references.
I think one of the best reference books concerning actual logistics and psychological impact encountered in combat (though this specific topic is not addressed) would be "Face of Battle" by John Keegan. It offers incredible perspective on the actual texture of these monumental and traumatic events.

All the best,
Jim
Jim McDougall is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2025, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Posts are regarded as being copyrighted by their authors and the act of posting material is deemed to be a granting of an irrevocable nonexclusive license for display here.