Scottish basket hilts and edged weapons

[Jeff D]

Thanks all for the comments so far. before we go on with this thread I think it would be good to review the basics, starting with the hilt types. I will start with what I can find in the literature (I will plagiarise heavily from the texts and will put all references at the end after working my way through the different hilt types). It would be great if the expertise of Paul, Jim, Eljay and the others could add on.

Starting with the earliest mature form;

The English Hilt (aka; Irish Hilt, Twysden hilt, Highland Hilts). These hilts are thought to predate the more familiar Scottish hilts. They were in use around the mid portion of the 16th century. They came to be associated with the Highland Scots and Irish. Oakeshott reasons this on the fact that a lot of Highland Chiefs had holdings in Ulster bringing a number of Highland mercenaries into Ireland during the subsequent wars. This form is the same as the Sword of Sir William Twysden (1566-1629) of Royden Hall, Kent (Currently in the Met. New York). I think it was Claude Blair who first started referring to this style as 'Twysden Hilt' this name seems to have caught on including the current best reference on baskethilts by Mazansky, as previously mentioned by Jim. Rather than describe the hilt I will try to post a number of photo's First is my Backsword, next is the Twysden sword and third is another example.

[Jeff D]

From the Englishhilt a number of styles developed. In the mid to late 17th century in the Western Highlands the Ribbonhilt (aka beaknose). Mazansky notes that there are four consistent features. 1) a residual quillion to form a beaknose, 2) Broad flat bars (the ribbon), 3) An S filler, 4) A flat ring that the side guards attatch to which then curves around 2/3rds of the base of the pommel.

Unfortunately I have to get ready for hockey and will try to add more tomorrow.

All the Best
Jeff

[Jim McDougall]

Fantastic! and well done Jeff. This is exactly where I hoped this would go. To focus on the various forms and thier development. As noted, the Twysden is quite early, and the blank saltire plates and connecting strips of the general form apparantly continue on many of the later English hilts in the 18th century. The ribbon hilt, as noted, seems about mid 17th century, though most that I have seen would seem c.1680-90.

I am curious on the pierced saltire plates and it seems they might have begun with influence from the pierced hearts I mentioned on some German dusagge basket hilt plates. I would like to discover also if possible, were the Glasgow hilts the earliest to use the pierced shapes?

Thank you Jeff!
All the best,
Jim

[Chris Evans]

Gentlemen,

I have been following this thread with great interest and would like to say that it is extremely informative. The level of contribution, that is scholarship, is terrific.

For those who are in possesion of antiques, it would be nice if they could provide the vital stats of the weapons, like weight, blade length, width, position of COP etc.

Keep is up. I am learning heaps.

Cheers
Chris

[Jim McDougall]

Thank you very much Chris! and that is an excellent suggestion on adding the stats on weapons posted. What is great about these type of discussions focused on a particular topic is that we can all pool resources, share the weapons owned privately, as well as seen in museums, and thereby all learn together. Thank you for the kind words, and the very helpful suggestion.

All the best,
Jim

[Jeff D]

Hi Jim,
Lets get through the basics and see if the forum can come up with an answer (ie. I don't have an answer but will keep looking ).

Hi Chris,
Hopefully I can dig out the swords and get a few answers for you.

All the Best
Jeff

[Jeff D]

The next group are the 'Thin-barred simple hilts'. There appears to be some controversy whether these developed from the Twysden hilts or in parallel with them from thin bared precursors.
This type evolved into the hilt types we are more familiar with. Using images from Mazansky you can see the evolution. 1 the earlest and 7 the latest.

(mods is it possible to organize the pictures in sequence as it makes more sense that way/ thanks /Jeff)