a keris for my father

[A. G. Maisey]

Yes, agreed Ferry. Unless it is a very distinctive blade, something like , say, Sigaluh, it is best not to try to give tangguh on a blade just from photos. You need to hold, touch, and "feel" a blade to give a supportable opinion on most tangguh classifications.

That "supportable opinion" is very, very important. Its no good saying that a blade is such and such a tangguh unless you can give the reasons for your opinion, and those reasons should cover around ten separate indicators.

Any opinion on tangguh without that opinion being supported by solid reasons should be accepted with reservations.

One of, if not the, major problem with tangguh classification is that for a long time now it has been applied to blades for which it was never intended.

Everybody wants their keris to be a recognisable tangguh, and of course salesmen love tangguh because it becomes another sales line.
Apart from which, tangguh is a good excuse for a long discussion.

Tangguh can be fun, but for serious students, it should be taken seriously, which means that when you classify a blade as some tangguh or other, you must give your reasons along with the classification.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yes, agreed Ferry. Unless it is a very distinctive blade, something like , say, Sigaluh, it is best not to try to give tangguh on a blade just from photos. You need to hold, touch, and "feel" a blade to give a supportable opinion on most tangguh classifications.

That "supportable opinion" is very, very important. Its no good saying that a blade is such and such a tangguh unless you can give the reasons for your opinion, and those reasons should cover around ten separate indicators.

Any opinion on tangguh without that opinion being supported by solid reasons should be accepted with reservations.

One of, if not the, major problem with tangguh classification is that for a long time now it has been applied to blades for which it was never intended.

Everybody wants their keris to be a recognisable tangguh, and of course salesmen love tangguh because it becomes another sales line.
Apart from which, tangguh is a good excuse for a long discussion.

Tangguh can be fun, but for serious students, it should be taken seriously, which means that when you classify a blade as some tangguh or other, you must give your reasons along with the classification.

In some cases, a very special keris has " kekancingan" or a letter consist of informations about: the name of the keris/the title of the keris, who made the keris, whom the keris made for, when it was made, etc... but this kind of kekancingan is very very rare. most trustworthy kekancingan could be found with a hight quality keris.
I never see it my self ( the kekancingan ) , how about you?
Alan, could you give us you opinion about kekancingan?

FERRY

[A. G. Maisey]

Ferry,one of these certificates is only as good as the person who prepared it.

It is possible to pay certain people to provide a certificate of this type.These people often have titles and reputations that would seem to indicate that any certificate issued by them would be reliable. Regrettably this is not always so.

Other people who do have integrity can also be found who will provide such a certificate.

As far as I can see the same thing has applied for a very long time, so even if the certificate is an old one, it is only as good as the man who prepared it.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Ferry,one of these certificates is only as good as the person who prepared it.

It is possible to pay certain people to provide a certificate of this type.These people often have titles and reputations that would seem to indicate that any certificate issued by them would be reliable. Regrettably this is not always so.

Other people who do have integrity can also be found who will provide such a certificate.

As far as I can see the same thing has applied for a very long time, so even if the certificate is an old one, it is only as good as the man who prepared it.

Ok, I get the point.
most keris empu didnt write their name on the blade nor the pesi. But once i saw a very special Spear head with the name of the empu written on the pesi using old javanese inscription ( hanacaraka)... just like a signature on a Japanese katana's tang . that was the first time for me to see an inscription an a pesi that mention the name of the empu.

FERRY

[A. G. Maisey]

And I'd be very inclined to take that signature with a grain of salt.

Ferry, if you read about "who" made keris in olden times, it was this king, or that king, or some other king. The king made the keris, using the medium of such and such an empu.

What empu would be sufficiently arrogant to affix his own name to anything he made, for his lord, or for anybody else?

The work of individual makers, or schools of makers is recognised by style. It is totally outside the ethics of keris making to put one's own name on something that one has made. Just not on.

[ferrylaki]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

And I'd be very inclined to take that signature with a grain of salt.

Ferry, if you read about "who" made keris in olden times, it was this king, or that king, or some other king. The king made the keris, using the medium of such and such an empu.

What empu would be sufficiently arrogant to affix his own name to anything he made, for his lord, or for anybody else?

The work of individual makers, or schools of makers is recognised by style. It is totally outside the ethics of keris making to put one's own name on something that one has made. Just not on.

Thanks, I never knew that.
No wonder we cant find any inscription on keris blade nor pesi.