Long Moro Twistcore spear

Rick · 15th February 2008, 03:27 PM

A confession of sorts; I have thrown my Mandaya spears (9 feet loa) a few times .
The targets were compressed bales of peat moss .
From 35 feet away the spear went completely through the bale every time .

Seems the mass really helps with penetration .

My two Moro fighting spears are more like six feet long; much easier IMHO to handle with a shield .

VANDOO · 15th February 2008, 05:17 PM

LEE HAS A VERY NICE EXAMPLE PROBABLY AROUND 8 FEET LONG THAT WAS PROBABLY USED MOSTLY AS A HAND THRUSTING SPEAR WITH SHIELD. ITS BALANCE AND TAPER ALSO WOULD HAVE MADE IT A GOOD SHORT RANGE THROWING SPEAR, BUT IT WAS TOO NICE FOR ITS OWNER TO HAVE JUST THROWN IT WITHOUT WORRING ABOUT GETTING IT BACK. I SUSPECT IF THROWN THE WARRIOR WOULD BE CLOSING RAPIDLY SWORD DRAWN TO FINNISH HIS ENEMY AND RECLAIM HIS SPEAR. JUST AS LEE WOULD DO IF I TRYED TO RUN OFF WITH HIS SPEAR

IF THE MORO HAD SPEARS ONLY FOR THROWING, I SUSPECT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD SMALLER LESS ELABORATE POINTS AND SHORTER LIGHTER CANE, BAMBOO OR RATTAN SHAFTS. THE COST OF MAKEING SUCH SPEARS WOULD BE MUCH LESS AND PERHAPS SEVERAL COULD BE CARRIED AND THROWN BEFORE CLOSING IN WITH THE STRONGER HEAVIER FIGHTING SPEAR ,SHIELD AND SWORD. JUST A GUESS AS I HAVE NOT READ UP ON SPECIFIC MORO FIGHTING TECKNIQUES OR IF I DID, HAVE FORGOTTEN BY NOW

.

Rick · 15th February 2008, 10:55 PM

Well, to look at this another way; if you threw your spear or even took it into close combat; either you would be returning victorious with your weapon , or you would have no further need of it ...

Bill M · 16th February 2008, 12:24 PM

Pictures of one of my other Moro spears. This one is about six feet long. It has a bronze ferrule, but also has the four "rings" on it, like the silver ferrule. Wonder if this is standard to budiaks?

It also has a hole in the butt end. I wonder is it once had a loop also? Hole seems to be at least 4 inches deep.

A. G. Maisey · 16th February 2008, 02:16 PM

Sometimes I get mighty pissed-off with myself.

I'm always telling people that I hate hypothesis without evidence or logical support and here I have been engaging in childish playing with random ideas instead of doing what I should have done in the first place:- gotten off of my fat butt and used my brain.

Reference :- Smithsonian Institution, United States National Museum Bulletin137, The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armour of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum, Herbert W. Krieger, Washington Government Printing Office 1926. Pages 49-52.

Too much to quote here, but these spears with long thin shafts and the provision for fixation of a cord are most likely to be hunting spears,used as harpoons, not war spears.

The spear-thrower was unknown in the Philippine Islands.

If nothing else, I think this error of mine has clearly demonstrated how ridiculous it is to hypothesize on something about which one knows nothing.

Battara · 16th February 2008, 09:15 PM

I have seen a type of Moro lance work demonstrated before, although I think it was more influenced by Pencat Silat than by Moro masters. STill these lances were not made for throwing. Throwing was for other spears.

15th February 2008, 10:55 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	As God Wills Well, to look at this another way; if you threw your spear or even took it into close combat; either you would be returning victorious with your weapon , or you would have no further need of it ...

16th February 2008, 12:24 PM	#4
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Pictures of one of my other Moro spears. This one is about six feet long. It has a bronze ferrule, but also has the four "rings" on it, like the silver ferrule. Wonder if this is standard to budiaks? It also has a hole in the butt end. I wonder is it once had a loop also? Hole seems to be at least 4 inches deep. Attached Images

15th February 2008, 03:27 PM	#1
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	A confession of sorts; I have thrown my Mandaya spears (9 feet loa) a few times . The targets were compressed bales of peat moss . From 35 feet away the spear went completely through the bale every time . Seems the mass really helps with penetration . My two Moro fighting spears are more like six feet long; much easier IMHO to handle with a shield .

15th February 2008, 05:17 PM	#2
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	LEE HAS A VERY NICE EXAMPLE PROBABLY AROUND 8 FEET LONG THAT WAS PROBABLY USED MOSTLY AS A HAND THRUSTING SPEAR WITH SHIELD. ITS BALANCE AND TAPER ALSO WOULD HAVE MADE IT A GOOD SHORT RANGE THROWING SPEAR, BUT IT WAS TOO NICE FOR ITS OWNER TO HAVE JUST THROWN IT WITHOUT WORRING ABOUT GETTING IT BACK. I SUSPECT IF THROWN THE WARRIOR WOULD BE CLOSING RAPIDLY SWORD DRAWN TO FINNISH HIS ENEMY AND RECLAIM HIS SPEAR. JUST AS LEE WOULD DO IF I TRYED TO RUN OFF WITH HIS SPEAR IF THE MORO HAD SPEARS ONLY FOR THROWING, I SUSPECT THEY WOULD HAVE HAD SMALLER LESS ELABORATE POINTS AND SHORTER LIGHTER CANE, BAMBOO OR RATTAN SHAFTS. THE COST OF MAKEING SUCH SPEARS WOULD BE MUCH LESS AND PERHAPS SEVERAL COULD BE CARRIED AND THROWN BEFORE CLOSING IN WITH THE STRONGER HEAVIER FIGHTING SPEAR ,SHIELD AND SWORD. JUST A GUESS AS I HAVE NOT READ UP ON SPECIFIC MORO FIGHTING TECKNIQUES OR IF I DID, HAVE FORGOTTEN BY NOW .

16th February 2008, 02:16 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Sometimes I get mighty pissed-off with myself. I'm always telling people that I hate hypothesis without evidence or logical support and here I have been engaging in childish playing with random ideas instead of doing what I should have done in the first place:- gotten off of my fat butt and used my brain. Reference :- Smithsonian Institution, United States National Museum Bulletin137, The Collection of Primitive Weapons and Armour of the Philippine Islands in the United States National Museum, Herbert W. Krieger, Washington Government Printing Office 1926. Pages 49-52. Too much to quote here, but these spears with long thin shafts and the provision for fixation of a cord are most likely to be hunting spears,used as harpoons, not war spears. The spear-thrower was unknown in the Philippine Islands. If nothing else, I think this error of mine has clearly demonstrated how ridiculous it is to hypothesize on something about which one knows nothing.

16th February 2008, 09:15 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	I have seen a type of Moro lance work demonstrated before, although I think it was more influenced by Pencat Silat than by Moro masters. STill these lances were not made for throwing. Throwing was for other spears.