a keris for my father

David · 12th February 2008, 10:31 PM

Nice keris Ferrylaki and a nice gesture. Now i wonder if i shouldn't have had some children when i was younger.

Marcokeris · 14th February 2008, 12:22 PM

Nice keris Ferrylaki.
Could be a keris like your a Pajang keris?

The only thing i don't like is the pendok: (from picture)too much shiny ...but if you like it, of course, it's OK

A. G. Maisey · 14th February 2008, 09:48 PM

Marco, this pendok is a very good quality engraved pendok.

Yes, I agree that it is possibly a little shiny, however, you are looking at this keris if it were a collectable, to be put in a cabinet and looked at in its entirety, Ferry's father will wear this keris as an item of dress, most of the pendok will not be seen because it will be hidden by the setagen, all that will be visible will be the atasan of the wrongko, and the tip of the pendok, we do not want to wear a dirty or tarnished pendok.

This keris is not classifiable as Pajang. It would be safe to classify it from the photo as late Mataram, but in the hand it might be able to be given Koripan, or possibly even Kajoran.

Marcokeris · 16th February 2008, 11:43 AM

Sorry Alan but...Koripan,... Kajoran

A. G. Maisey · 16th February 2008, 01:29 PM

Part of the whole tangguh thing Marco.

Koripan is a smithing village near Klaten, they've produced Mataram style keris since supposedly around 1825.

Kajoran was family with connections to Mataram.

There's really no need to get too involved in this, its sub-classification of a broad general type. Pretty difficult, maybe impossible to do from pics, and even in the hand if you have 6 experts, you'll have 9 opinions.

ferrylaki · 19th February 2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Part of the whole tangguh thing Marco.

Koripan is a smithing village near Klaten, they've produced Mataram style keris since supposedly around 1825.

Kajoran was family with connections to Mataram.

There's really no need to get too involved in this, its sub-classification of a broad general type. Pretty difficult, maybe impossible to do from pics, and even in the hand if you have 6 experts, you'll have 9 opinions.

We should not argue about the tangguh or the origin of the keris...like Alan said, we might have many different opinions. a friend of mine said this keris might be made in HB7 era and made in nganto-ento Jogjakarta. Let's just say this keris has mataram style. the appropriate warangka would be brangah Jogja.

A. G. Maisey · 19th February 2008, 01:17 AM

Yes, agreed Ferry. Unless it is a very distinctive blade, something like , say, Sigaluh, it is best not to try to give tangguh on a blade just from photos. You need to hold, touch, and "feel" a blade to give a supportable opinion on most tangguh classifications.

That "supportable opinion" is very, very important. Its no good saying that a blade is such and such a tangguh unless you can give the reasons for your opinion, and those reasons should cover around ten separate indicators.

Any opinion on tangguh without that opinion being supported by solid reasons should be accepted with reservations.

One of, if not the, major problem with tangguh classification is that for a long time now it has been applied to blades for which it was never intended.

Everybody wants their keris to be a recognisable tangguh, and of course salesmen love tangguh because it becomes another sales line.
Apart from which, tangguh is a good excuse for a long discussion.

Tangguh can be fun, but for serious students, it should be taken seriously, which means that when you classify a blade as some tangguh or other, you must give your reasons along with the classification.

12th February 2008, 10:31 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,211	Nice keris Ferrylaki and a nice gesture. Now i wonder if i shouldn't have had some children when i was younger.

14th February 2008, 12:22 PM	#2
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Nice keris Ferrylaki. Could be a keris like your a Pajang keris? The only thing i don't like is the pendok: (from picture)too much shiny ...but if you like it, of course, it's OK

14th February 2008, 09:48 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Marco, this pendok is a very good quality engraved pendok. Yes, I agree that it is possibly a little shiny, however, you are looking at this keris if it were a collectable, to be put in a cabinet and looked at in its entirety, Ferry's father will wear this keris as an item of dress, most of the pendok will not be seen because it will be hidden by the setagen, all that will be visible will be the atasan of the wrongko, and the tip of the pendok, we do not want to wear a dirty or tarnished pendok. This keris is not classifiable as Pajang. It would be safe to classify it from the photo as late Mataram, but in the hand it might be able to be given Koripan, or possibly even Kajoran.

16th February 2008, 11:43 AM	#4
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Sorry Alan but...Koripan,... Kajoran

16th February 2008, 01:29 PM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Part of the whole tangguh thing Marco. Koripan is a smithing village near Klaten, they've produced Mataram style keris since supposedly around 1825. Kajoran was family with connections to Mataram. There's really no need to get too involved in this, its sub-classification of a broad general type. Pretty difficult, maybe impossible to do from pics, and even in the hand if you have 6 experts, you'll have 9 opinions.

19th February 2008, 01:17 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yes, agreed Ferry. Unless it is a very distinctive blade, something like , say, Sigaluh, it is best not to try to give tangguh on a blade just from photos. You need to hold, touch, and "feel" a blade to give a supportable opinion on most tangguh classifications. That "supportable opinion" is very, very important. Its no good saying that a blade is such and such a tangguh unless you can give the reasons for your opinion, and those reasons should cover around ten separate indicators. Any opinion on tangguh without that opinion being supported by solid reasons should be accepted with reservations. One of, if not the, major problem with tangguh classification is that for a long time now it has been applied to blades for which it was never intended. Everybody wants their keris to be a recognisable tangguh, and of course salesmen love tangguh because it becomes another sales line. Apart from which, tangguh is a good excuse for a long discussion. Tangguh can be fun, but for serious students, it should be taken seriously, which means that when you classify a blade as some tangguh or other, you must give your reasons along with the classification.