Questions About a Curious Kukri

spiral · 20th March 2005, 06:57 PM

Great photo Steve! Thanks.

Tom, I understand that some Kami poor the water down the very edge of the blade as it points towards the ground, thus quenching both sides of the edge at the same time.

It is normaly just the belly thats hardend, the tip, spine & waist area are left softer. It is critical that the waist is left soft, as otherwise the blade is left with the potential to snape under stress.

I had never heard of Japanese etching of blades. Fascinating. Thankyou.

You do have some lovely swords Simon.

regards,
Spiral

sirupate · 20th March 2005, 07:39 PM

Cheers Spiral

tom hyle · 20th March 2005, 09:34 PM

Interesting. Perhaps the man I saw was doing an unusual process for some reason, or perhaps in original manufacture it might be done prior to final polishing, to see what's going on? It was long ago, so I'm not sure....Then, as I have no idea what these Japanese words mean, further thought or comment are impossible.....my knowledge of Japanese swords is limitted to a few examples in poor condition (from which however I learned much), books, and television....most older "Western" sources are obviously off-the-wall (light slashing swords; give me a break!), and most sources are almost proprietarily secretive about polishing processes; and also I'm fairly disinterested in polishing processes; I'm more concerned with structural process; it's in my nature somehow; but it's been a while, too, since I've read anything new on the subject, and I think quite a bit more has been published in English in the last decade or two.....

Kukuris I've sharpened are soft in the tip, too, which I always thought interesting, and had attributed (wrongly) to the straightness of a partial imersion quench. So that's quite intentional.....

Conogre; I found a couple photos of old kopsh; not Egyptian though; one Palestinian, one Assyrian. When I have some money I'll send you copies to check out, as I think you might like them. Both have tang-band/I-beam type handle design. One has and I-beam type "shaft", the other a flat-looking one with grooves down both edges. The blade itself on the Palestinian (Gezer) one has two wide grooves and looks fairly light. That on the Assyrian one looks to have a wedge type section, with a narrow groove at the spine (a continuation of the one on the shaft portion); it looks somewhat heavier, but not dauntingly so. They need to put measurements in these sword books.

Movies often make swords too big; with reproducers it can go either way; some full size swords like salwar yatagan and kris sundang are regularly made now with blades around 18", which would have formerly been distinctly on the small side......

Conogre · 21st March 2005, 02:46 PM

Thank you one and all.
I personally don't feel that a sword or knife has to be of premier quality or have been owned by a Sultan, maharaja or a Datu to be worthy of discussion, often exactly the opposite, with the "poorer" blades being the ones carried by the warriors and average tribesman that won or lost the conflicts.
I have leads to follow forever in this area now and a LOT more reading to do and appreciation to build.
Again, my sincere and humble thanks.
Mike

spiral · 21st March 2005, 07:51 PM

I totaly agree Conogre, I to try to find examples of peasents weapons / tools as well as kings.

I learn much from both types of examples, although I must admit my collection leans more to the military side of things so far.

Happy collecting!

regards,
Spiral

sirupate · 21st March 2005, 07:55 PM

For me the the fighting and workhorse blades hold the most interest, but at the same time I wouldn't turn down a high quality piece either

Cheers Simon

Conogre · 21st March 2005, 10:01 PM

Here's a link that I ran across that seems to be fairly authoritarian and with a lot of information that's concise and very readable.
http://www.army.mod.uk/brigade_of_gu...ri_history.htm

Hopefully, our specializing members and those with books on the subject will correct any innacuracies.
Mike

20th March 2005, 09:34 PM	#3
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	Interesting. Perhaps the man I saw was doing an unusual process for some reason, or perhaps in original manufacture it might be done prior to final polishing, to see what's going on? It was long ago, so I'm not sure....Then, as I have no idea what these Japanese words mean, further thought or comment are impossible.....my knowledge of Japanese swords is limitted to a few examples in poor condition (from which however I learned much), books, and television....most older "Western" sources are obviously off-the-wall (light slashing swords; give me a break!), and most sources are almost proprietarily secretive about polishing processes; and also I'm fairly disinterested in polishing processes; I'm more concerned with structural process; it's in my nature somehow; but it's been a while, too, since I've read anything new on the subject, and I think quite a bit more has been published in English in the last decade or two..... Kukuris I've sharpened are soft in the tip, too, which I always thought interesting, and had attributed (wrongly) to the straightness of a partial imersion quench. So that's quite intentional..... Conogre; I found a couple photos of old kopsh; not Egyptian though; one Palestinian, one Assyrian. When I have some money I'll send you copies to check out, as I think you might like them. Both have tang-band/I-beam type handle design. One has and I-beam type "shaft", the other a flat-looking one with grooves down both edges. The blade itself on the Palestinian (Gezer) one has two wide grooves and looks fairly light. That on the Assyrian one looks to have a wedge type section, with a narrow groove at the spine (a continuation of the one on the shaft portion); it looks somewhat heavier, but not dauntingly so. They need to put measurements in these sword books. Movies often make swords too big; with reproducers it can go either way; some full size swords like salwar yatagan and kris sundang are regularly made now with blades around 18", which would have formerly been distinctly on the small side...... Last edited by tom hyle; 20th March 2005 at 09:51 PM.

20th March 2005, 06:57 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Great photo Steve! Thanks. Tom, I understand that some Kami poor the water down the very edge of the blade as it points towards the ground, thus quenching both sides of the edge at the same time. It is normaly just the belly thats hardend, the tip, spine & waist area are left softer. It is critical that the waist is left soft, as otherwise the blade is left with the potential to snape under stress. I had never heard of Japanese etching of blades. Fascinating. Thankyou. You do have some lovely swords Simon. regards, Spiral

20th March 2005, 07:39 PM	#2
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	Cheers Spiral

21st March 2005, 02:46 PM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Thank you one and all. I personally don't feel that a sword or knife has to be of premier quality or have been owned by a Sultan, maharaja or a Datu to be worthy of discussion, often exactly the opposite, with the "poorer" blades being the ones carried by the warriors and average tribesman that won or lost the conflicts. I have leads to follow forever in this area now and a LOT more reading to do and appreciation to build. Again, my sincere and humble thanks. Mike

21st March 2005, 07:51 PM	#5
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	I totaly agree Conogre, I to try to find examples of peasents weapons / tools as well as kings. I learn much from both types of examples, although I must admit my collection leans more to the military side of things so far. Happy collecting! regards, Spiral

21st March 2005, 07:55 PM	#6
sirupate Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: England Posts: 373	For me the the fighting and workhorse blades hold the most interest, but at the same time I wouldn't turn down a high quality piece either Cheers Simon

21st March 2005, 10:01 PM	#7
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	Here's a link that I ran across that seems to be fairly authoritarian and with a lot of information that's concise and very readable. http://www.army.mod.uk/brigade_of_gu...ri_history.htm Hopefully, our specializing members and those with books on the subject will correct any innacuracies. Mike