outside the square

[A. G. Maisey]

I'm beginning to feel really sorry that I started this thread.

When I read the article I saw so much in it, put in such a clear and simple and straightforward way, that was directly able to be related to keris belief that I thought other people with a keris interest would immediately grasp the implications of the way in which the human mind and the human experience can create images and experiences that are totally real in a particular time and place, but removed from that time and place and put into either a cultural vacuum , or into a negatively charged culture, will yield either no image or experience, or a different image or experience.

My thought was that we would all benefit from a little bit of quite consideration of the workings of the human mind against the background of our own particular culture and society, and this consideration could lead to a better, or perhaps only different, understanding of much that is associated with keris culture.

Looks like I was wrong. I apologise for wasting everybody's time.

However, I too have seen UFO's, and I am prepared to agree with anybody that UFO's and aliens really do exist, or alternatively that they really do not exist, and I can mount a convincing argument either way. But its just not a subject that interests me very much.

[Emanuel]

Hello,

I enjoyed the spychological analyses in the article. I thought the idea about changes in the Earth's magnetic field making people see UFO's a bit odd. As a random effect it may also have made them see purple pigs dancing on the street, but that doesn't seem to happen.

The bit about the university professor seeing lights in the sky at night and immediately thinking about UFO's in an interesting one. I guess that just as he was conditionned to think "UFO", so the people in Solo were conditioned to think "Nyai Loro Kidul" when they saw a thunderbolt strike a spire of the kraton. They congregated at the kraton in a time of seeming danger, just as folks in Europe would go to the local church or cathedral. People are conditionned to do this in time of crisis or extreme anxiety.

The Solo man may KNOW that when he heard a rustling noise in the house and then he tripped and hit his head, that the keris did it out of anger or as a sign, obviously. The westerner guest will KNOW that the wind moved the beads in the window, the man got spooked and he tripped on the kids' toys, also obviously. Both are right and neither can prove the other wrong. The Texan businessman KNOWS that the UFO was a mile long travelling 300x faster than his Cessna - his experience, his scale, his perception and manner of thinking.

Certain dynamic lighting conditions could make a serpentine keris blade appear to be moving. A man's eyes show him the naga blade coming to life. How can someone that wasn't present or that witnessed different lighting conditions dissuade him from his belief?
If all of these keris cases are publicised as much as the UFO sightings are, then it's not hard to understand why an entire culture may believe in the power of keris. As obvious as it is to a Texan that UFO's exist (or don't exist), so it is to a Solonese man that his keris is (or is not) magical.

That's what I got from your comparison, Alan.
Regards,
Emanuel

[David]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I'm beginning to feel really sorry that I started this thread.

When I read the article I saw so much in it, put in such a clear and simple and straightforward way, that was directly able to be related to keris belief that I thought other people with a keris interest would immediately grasp the implications of the way in which the human mind and the human experience can create images and experiences that are totally real in a particular time and place, but removed from that time and place and put into either a cultural vacuum , or into a negatively charged culture, will yield either no image or experience, or a different image or experience.

My thought was that we would all benefit from a little bit of quite consideration of the workings of the human mind against the background of our own particular culture and society, and this consideration could lead to a better, or perhaps only different, understanding of much that is associated with keris culture.

Looks like I was wrong. I apologise for wasting everybody's time.

However, I too have seen UFO's, and I am prepared to agree with anybody that UFO's and aliens really do exist, or alternatively that they really do not exist, and I can mount a convincing argument either way. But its just not a subject that interests me very much.

Alan, you have no need to apologize and i don't think you have wasted anyone's time. But i also think you are wrong if you think we just don't "get" what you were on about, even if the subject stills seems a bit too focussed on UFOs themselves. I think most of us at least understand what you were pointing to if we are not totally in agreement with your points.

[fearn]

While I generally avoid "me too" posts, Alan, I agree with David's points. It was worth posting the article.

For the purposes of this forum, perhaps we need a fuzzy image that could be an Unidentified Flying Keris to center the discussion properly. Or maybe not...

F