Archaic proto-, boy's- or miniature souvenir-kris?

kai · 19th January 2008, 09:12 PM

Hello Michael,

Quote:

This is the smallest Moro kris I have seen (so far).
It's 52 cm (20 1/2") in scabbard and the blade is 39,5 cm (15 1/2").

The wear seems to be consistent with a really old blade.

How long is the gripping length - isn't that too long for a (Moro) boy's fist?

Regards,
Kai

Battara · 19th January 2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kai

How long is the gripping length - isn't that too long for a (Moro) boy's fist?

Kai, you make some good points. I agree that this is not a boy's kris and that the hilt is too long for that.

VVV · 19th January 2008, 11:22 PM

Thanks for your comments!

The gripping area is only 7,5 cm, slightly less than a ukiran keris (see comparison picture).
On the ganja there is none (checked with a 8x).
But I have recieved off-forum info that this, ganja iras, could be a sign
of a really archaic keris/kris.

Michael

kai · 22nd January 2008, 11:09 PM

Hello Michael,

Quote:

The gripping area is only 7,5 cm

That's not much; however, it's within the range of mature Southeast Asians - just remeasured a non-representative sample of fully grown hands with exactly this gripping length...

Quote:

On the ganja there is none (checked with a 8x).

Thanks for the confirmation! So, some grain of the steel running into the gangya area?

Quote:

But I have recieved off-forum info that this, ganja iras, could be a sign of a really archaic keris/kris.

Any supporting evidence? Pics?

Regards,
Kai

A. G. Maisey · 23rd January 2008, 12:12 AM

Blade length 18".

Overall length 22.75"

Length of grip section of hilt 3.25"

Scabbard damaged but original.

Battara · 23rd January 2008, 01:17 AM

I will bet that it actually does have a separable ganga, but it is so well matched and tight that it is extremly difficult to see. It has taken me 20x to see some separation lines on some of the kris I either have or have handled.

Below is a fuzzy picture (I put in extra fuzz for you

) of my Balinese keris (1800?), my early Moro kris (1790s-1800), and my silver hilted kris (1850s). Notice that Moro kris get larger as the time frame comes closer to 1900.

Battara · 23rd January 2008, 01:19 AM

Alan,

thank you for posting your kris - rare to see original scabbards from this early era.

23rd January 2008, 12:12 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	Blade length 18". Overall length 22.75" Length of grip section of hilt 3.25" Scabbard damaged but original. Attached Images

23rd January 2008, 01:17 AM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,342	I will bet that it actually does have a separable ganga, but it is so well matched and tight that it is extremly difficult to see. It has taken me 20x to see some separation lines on some of the kris I either have or have handled. Below is a fuzzy picture (I put in extra fuzz for you ) of my Balinese keris (1800?), my early Moro kris (1790s-1800), and my silver hilted kris (1850s). Notice that Moro kris get larger as the time frame comes closer to 1900. Attached Images

19th January 2008, 11:22 PM	#3
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Thanks for your comments! The gripping area is only 7,5 cm, slightly less than a ukiran keris (see comparison picture). On the ganja there is none (checked with a 8x). But I have recieved off-forum info that this, ganja iras, could be a sign of a really archaic keris/kris. Michael

23rd January 2008, 01:19 AM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,342	Alan, thank you for posting your kris - rare to see original scabbards from this early era.