Tulwar scabbard

Pukka Bundook · 17th January 2008, 02:38 AM

Dom,
Thank you. I will remember what you have told me.
Regarding the gold, Is this something new?
I am thinking of the swords with gold inscriptions on the blades, or Koftgari, or Gold covered hilts, even from Rhajestan and the Punjab.

Please can you clarify the position?

Thank you for your reply!

Richard.

olikara · 17th January 2008, 08:50 AM

I believe Orthodox Muslim Men abhor Gold ornaments, however even the strictest among their rulers used Gold decoration liberally on their weapons of offense and state.

Tipu Sultan, in no respect a Non-Observant Muslim, used Gold on his swords and scabbard mounts very liberally. Check out:
http://www.stephenwoodresearch.com/port/tip01.htm

Another of Tipu's personal swords at the National Museum, Delhi dated 1790 A.D. uses Gold Hilt Damascening and again the blade is inscribed in Gold. See Page 40, Arms and Armour - E. Jaiwant Paul.

Similarly with Nadir Shah's Battle Axe in the same museum.

There are many more examples.

Nidhin Olikara

ward · 17th January 2008, 01:30 PM

Dom is correct. The Afghans generally have followed a strict orthodox version of Islam. I own many pulwars and no outward display of gold. Not all of the forbidden items in Islam are always paid attention to. Example you can drink beer in some Muslic countries but there is a black covering over the entrance it is not served where people can see it and there is a large stigma attached to drinking. Islam is so intwined in the arabic language and the cultures of these societies that it affects most aspects of day to day life. so no gold,no pigs,no pictures of Mohammad,no depictions of human forms in decoration,etc etc. But yes some of these rules are broken at times

Pukka Bundook · 17th January 2008, 02:46 PM

I thank you for your replies.
This is a very interesting subject, and appears rather complex.

I would like to know more, but am sitting here contemplating, and do not know the questions....
Until recently, I always thought of the wonderful people in Afghanistan as Afghans, ...not realizing that there are very distinct peoples living there, and adhering to somewhat different forms of Islam.
Please forgive my ignorance.
It is all so Very interesting!...and a perfect example of how an old sword can lead one into a whole new field and world!

Thank you again.

Richard.

Dom · 17th January 2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Until recently, I always thought of the wonderful people in Afghanistan as Afghans, ...not realizing that there are very distinct peoples living there, and adhering to somewhat different forms of Islam.
Please forgive my ignorance.

Afghans are adhering to the form of Sunnit Islam, the
- Wahhabism (Arabic: Al-Wahhābīyya الوهابية)
the Wahhabism is a conservative 18th century reform movement of Sunnit Islam founded by Muhammad ibn Abd-al-Wahhab
regards

à +

Dom

ward · 17th January 2008, 08:46 PM

When refering to any of these groups (Afghans,Moroccans,etc) we are only giving a rough geographic,cultural identity,language dialect, and religous sect.

Pukka Bundook · 18th January 2008, 02:46 PM

Dom,
Thank you for going to the trouble of explaining some of these things to me. It is very kind of you and most appreciated.
I have much to learn!

Ward, I understand what you mean re. giving a rough cultural identity etc, and this is acceptable.
The problem was my failure to be aware that within this rough cultural identity there was so much cultural diversity!

Richard.

Dom · 17th January 2008, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pukka Bundook

Regarding the gold, Is this something new?

Hi Richard

the disposition regarding gold and men is not a new fashion, it's mentionned in the Holy Koran
but, you know, there is every time the
- do what I am telling you, don't do what I am doing

and also the several allegiances of Muslims,
some (some tribes located Turkia/Syria) are officially drinking alcool,
some others are married with just one (1) wife (some tribes Egyptian Bedouins)
even, a tribe in Yemen (nearby Mokka) where women are faces veiled but breast top less.
also .. I stand on the generality

regards

à +

Dom

17th January 2008, 08:50 AM	#2
olikara Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: India Posts: 101	Gold Work on Islamic Weapons I believe Orthodox Muslim Men abhor Gold ornaments, however even the strictest among their rulers used Gold decoration liberally on their weapons of offense and state. Tipu Sultan, in no respect a Non-Observant Muslim, used Gold on his swords and scabbard mounts very liberally. Check out: http://www.stephenwoodresearch.com/port/tip01.htm Another of Tipu's personal swords at the National Museum, Delhi dated 1790 A.D. uses Gold Hilt Damascening and again the blade is inscribed in Gold. See Page 40, Arms and Armour - E. Jaiwant Paul. Similarly with Nadir Shah's Battle Axe in the same museum. There are many more examples. Nidhin Olikara Last edited by olikara; 17th January 2008 at 09:41 AM. Reason: Added Reference

17th January 2008, 08:46 PM	#6
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	When refering to any of these groups (Afghans,Moroccans,etc) we are only giving a rough geographic,cultural identity,language dialect, and religous sect. Last edited by ward; 17th January 2008 at 10:06 PM. Reason: spelling

17th January 2008, 02:38 AM	#1
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dom, Thank you. I will remember what you have told me. Regarding the gold, Is this something new? I am thinking of the swords with gold inscriptions on the blades, or Koftgari, or Gold covered hilts, even from Rhajestan and the Punjab. Please can you clarify the position? Thank you for your reply! Richard.

17th January 2008, 01:30 PM	#3
ward Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 637	Dom is correct. The Afghans generally have followed a strict orthodox version of Islam. I own many pulwars and no outward display of gold. Not all of the forbidden items in Islam are always paid attention to. Example you can drink beer in some Muslic countries but there is a black covering over the entrance it is not served where people can see it and there is a large stigma attached to drinking. Islam is so intwined in the arabic language and the cultures of these societies that it affects most aspects of day to day life. so no gold,no pigs,no pictures of Mohammad,no depictions of human forms in decoration,etc etc. But yes some of these rules are broken at times

17th January 2008, 02:46 PM	#4
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	I thank you for your replies. This is a very interesting subject, and appears rather complex. I would like to know more, but am sitting here contemplating, and do not know the questions.... Until recently, I always thought of the wonderful people in Afghanistan as Afghans, ...not realizing that there are very distinct peoples living there, and adhering to somewhat different forms of Islam. Please forgive my ignorance. It is all so Very interesting!...and a perfect example of how an old sword can lead one into a whole new field and world! Thank you again. Richard.

18th January 2008, 02:46 PM	#7
Pukka Bundook Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 803	Dom, Thank you for going to the trouble of explaining some of these things to me. It is very kind of you and most appreciated. I have much to learn! Ward, I understand what you mean re. giving a rough cultural identity etc, and this is acceptable. The problem was my failure to be aware that within this rough cultural identity there was so much cultural diversity! Richard.