coments on this...a help

Emanuel · 15th January 2008, 12:37 AM

Hey there, welcome to the forum!

You can be at ease, this is an authentic keris. It seems to be from Solo, dapur Tilam Upih I think, could be Brodjol. The pamor could be wos wutah.
No way to tell the age, but it looks old to me. I like the ukiran and wrongko a lot. Too bad the gandar is damaged though.
I'm sure you'll get more accurate answers from the many knowledgeable folks here.

Regards,
Emanuel

PenangsangII · 15th January 2008, 02:00 AM

Strange ukiran for a Solo piece, almost like a hybrid of Jawa & Solo

Emanuel · 15th January 2008, 02:27 AM

Hmm, Rahardjo (2003) has a similar one listed as Yogya, and yet another one as Surakarta, so maybe Solo not far off

In any case I always thought this type of ukiran looked a bit Balinese, so eastern Java would perhaps do it?

PenangsangII · 15th January 2008, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manolo

Hmm, Rahardjo (2003) has a similar one listed as Yogya, and yet another one as Surakarta, so maybe Solo not far off

In any case I always thought this type of ukiran looked a bit Balinese, so eastern Java would perhaps do it?

Even Lombok's origin cannot be ruled out, I think.

sipakatuo · 15th January 2008, 06:47 AM

It seems old to me. If I am not mistaken, your keris is dapur tilam upih, pamor beras wutah. It could be Mataram but more likely Padjajaran if looking at the gandik and ganja (small and a bit rounded). Warangka made of Kayu Timoho with Gayaman Solo style. Handle made of Kayu Timoho. Your mendak and Handle could be from Eastern part of Java.

Henk · 15th January 2008, 09:58 PM

This keris has in my opinion dapur brodjol. The tikkel alis, necesarry for dapur tilam upih, is as far as I can see not present on the pictures.

Origin is probably East Java, at least the ukiran and mendak point in that direction. The wrangka has a Solo look.

The pelet drawing on the front of the wrangka puzzles me a bit. I think it is painted on the wrangka and also on the ukiran. It is not uncommon and often seen. Pelet wood is expensive so a cheaper solution is to paint the pelet motiv on the wood. On the picture of the backside of the scabbard you can see that this keris was dressed with a pendok.

An authentic keris with age, but certainly not Lombok or Bali.

Emanuel · 15th January 2008, 10:41 PM

Hello Henk

I had not realized that the Pelet was false, even though the dark patches are only visible on one side. Is it done with simple wood stain?

All the best,
Emanuel

A. G. Maisey · 15th January 2008, 10:48 PM

I cannot disagree with what you have written, Henk.

But I will add this:- this style of gayaman wrongko can originate from many places, with minor variations. It tends to lack the refinement we usually see in a Solo wrongko, and all other things considered, I would be inclined to give it as East Jawa. I doubt that the gandar ever had a pendok fitted.

My personal opinion is that it is a mistake to try to classify in accordance with the principles of tangguh in a case where a blade is not of reasonably high quality. It is extremely difficult, almost impossible to try to classify a blade lacking distinctive features, and it is even more difficult than extremely difficult to try to classify a blade without seeing the top of the gonjo. To try to classify even an excellent blade from a photograph is something that I often find beyond my abilities.

The classification of blades according to tangguh has become almost a stock joke in recent years. It has become thus precisely because it has become almost universal practice to try to hang a tangguh on any blade, no matter whether the tangguh system was designed for such a blade or not.

Where a tangguh is given for a blade, the reasons for assigning that classification should be able to be given, and if necessary, explained.

sipakatuo · 16th January 2008, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

This keris has in my opinion dapur brodjol. The tikkel alis, necesarry for dapur tilam upih, is as far as I can see not present on the pictures.

Origin is probably East Java, at least the ukiran and mendak point in that direction. The wrangka has a Solo look.

The pelet drawing on the front of the wrangka puzzles me a bit. I think it is painted on the wrangka and also on the ukiran. It is not uncommon and often seen. Pelet wood is expensive so a cheaper solution is to paint the pelet motiv on the wood. On the picture of the backside of the scabbard you can see that this keris was dressed with a pendok.

An authentic keris with age, but certainly not Lombok or Bali.

After second look, I think I have to agree with you Henk. The warangka look a bit suspicious, and I think it was painted.

Alam Shah · 16th January 2008, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henk

This keris has in my opinion dapur brodjol. The tikkel alis, necesarry for dapur tilam upih, is as far as I can see not present on the pictures....
An authentic keris with age, but certainly not Lombok or Bali.

I agree with Henk, for the dapur. I especially like the blade... simple, robust looking... lots of abstract patterns.

15th January 2008, 12:37 AM	#1
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hey there, welcome to the forum! You can be at ease, this is an authentic keris. It seems to be from Solo, dapur Tilam Upih I think, could be Brodjol. The pamor could be wos wutah. No way to tell the age, but it looks old to me. I like the ukiran and wrongko a lot. Too bad the gandar is damaged though. I'm sure you'll get more accurate answers from the many knowledgeable folks here. Regards, Emanuel

15th January 2008, 02:00 AM	#2
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Strange ukiran for a Solo piece, almost like a hybrid of Jawa & Solo

15th January 2008, 02:27 AM	#3
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hmm, Rahardjo (2003) has a similar one listed as Yogya, and yet another one as Surakarta, so maybe Solo not far off In any case I always thought this type of ukiran looked a bit Balinese, so eastern Java would perhaps do it?

15th January 2008, 06:47 AM	#5
sipakatuo Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 59	It seems old to me. If I am not mistaken, your keris is dapur tilam upih, pamor beras wutah. It could be Mataram but more likely Padjajaran if looking at the gandik and ganja (small and a bit rounded). Warangka made of Kayu Timoho with Gayaman Solo style. Handle made of Kayu Timoho. Your mendak and Handle could be from Eastern part of Java.

15th January 2008, 09:58 PM	#6
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	This keris has in my opinion dapur brodjol. The tikkel alis, necesarry for dapur tilam upih, is as far as I can see not present on the pictures. Origin is probably East Java, at least the ukiran and mendak point in that direction. The wrangka has a Solo look. The pelet drawing on the front of the wrangka puzzles me a bit. I think it is painted on the wrangka and also on the ukiran. It is not uncommon and often seen. Pelet wood is expensive so a cheaper solution is to paint the pelet motiv on the wood. On the picture of the backside of the scabbard you can see that this keris was dressed with a pendok. An authentic keris with age, but certainly not Lombok or Bali.

15th January 2008, 10:41 PM	#7
Emanuel Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,242	Hello Henk I had not realized that the Pelet was false, even though the dark patches are only visible on one side. Is it done with simple wood stain? All the best, Emanuel

15th January 2008, 10:48 PM	#8
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,085	I cannot disagree with what you have written, Henk. But I will add this:- this style of gayaman wrongko can originate from many places, with minor variations. It tends to lack the refinement we usually see in a Solo wrongko, and all other things considered, I would be inclined to give it as East Jawa. I doubt that the gandar ever had a pendok fitted. My personal opinion is that it is a mistake to try to classify in accordance with the principles of tangguh in a case where a blade is not of reasonably high quality. It is extremely difficult, almost impossible to try to classify a blade lacking distinctive features, and it is even more difficult than extremely difficult to try to classify a blade without seeing the top of the gonjo. To try to classify even an excellent blade from a photograph is something that I often find beyond my abilities. The classification of blades according to tangguh has become almost a stock joke in recent years. It has become thus precisely because it has become almost universal practice to try to hang a tangguh on any blade, no matter whether the tangguh system was designed for such a blade or not. Where a tangguh is given for a blade, the reasons for assigning that classification should be able to be given, and if necessary, explained.