Looking for Information on this Kris.

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 07:21 AM

Yeah, its quite pretty, and similar to Sharial's example. I do have others with this back to front handle, but I knew where this one was and could grab it immediately without having to look for it. I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

Gavin Nugent · 12th January 2008, 08:06 AM

Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference.

thanks again

Gav

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference.

thanks again

Gav

The blade is supposed to be horizontal when held. Search the forum, there are a few pictures of how a keris is held.

BluErf · 12th January 2008, 02:41 PM

Hi,

I think this keris is a Straits Bugis keris, and most likely from the Sumatran side.

The tapering batang and the style of the buntut tekak lipas ("cockroach throat") is not typical of peninsula malaysia; it is not so rounded, and the 'v' part bordering the batang is too far apart.

The other hint is the hilt. Peninsula hulu kerdas usually does not curve that much downwards.

The sampir is probably congruent with the Riau-Lingga style, though many people would confuse it with the very similar Terengganu style. The Riau-Lingga sampir style has a 'fuller body' and usually a more curving top line.

rasdan · 12th January 2008, 03:25 PM

Hi,

Just guessing. My bet is that this is a malay keris that comes from northern peninsula, posibbly Kedah. Quite a number of keris coming out from Kedah has this kind of fittings. However, the blade is normally of the jalak jantan/betina type which this one is not. The hilt in my opinion does not belong to the sheath. It seems that it is of a later work. This type of sheath usually come with a jawa demam hilt. However the combination is still valid, if we want to accept that the fittings are Sumatran. It is also possible that this is a North Peninsula (not east coast) blade, but its just a guess.

BluErf · 13th January 2008, 01:51 AM

Hi Rasdan,

Why do you think that the hilt is a later work? I think both the hilt and sheath are contemporaries to each other.

The blade of this keris could be found in either side of the Straits.

rasdan · 13th January 2008, 02:30 AM

Hi Blu,
Yes, the combination is still valid. I think that its later because its from a different wood from the sampir. As far as i can see from the pics it looks much softer the work is almost probably from a different person. What i observe is that, later hilt usually uses softer wood. The blade quality and form looks quite different from the east cost one. But again, this is just a guessing game.

David · 13th January 2008, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alam Shah

The blade is supposed to be horizontal when held. Search the forum, there are a few pictures of how a keris is held.

Gavin, Shahrial is absolutely correct on this. The way you are holding your keris with it's opposite hilt orientation is not the way one generally would use a keris in a fight. I have attached a some photos from past threads, but if you search the forums you will no doubt find some more.

Battara · 14th January 2008, 09:10 PM

This is the way the hilt should be (or at least perpendicular to the blade still with the the shorter part toward the thumb and forefinger). David is right on the money - this is the way to use it to fight and be functional.

PenangsangII · 15th January 2008, 01:49 AM

Very unique gripping technique AlamShah

Normally Bugis Sumatran (Central (I think)hilt style feels so good if held like the one AlamShah showed

Gavin Nugent · 15th January 2008, 06:47 AM

Thanks All.

Looking at the black and white image of the kris being held, I can imagine this being quite a positive grip, looking at the colour image, although you tell me it is correct and I have no knowledge otherwise, I could see in the heat of fighting with sweat and blood being present, the grip on the handle does not look to convincing enough to be rigid, especially if resisitance like bone was met square one. I will however source a local Kris with the handle on the correct way and try it for myself.

Thanks for everyones input on the subject of this Kris and other questions.

regards

Gavin

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

... I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

For social function's perhaps... but why secure it at that position rendering the weapon less effective?

If the blade is similar, I would be interested in the piece...

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 12:19 PM

Very similar Shahrial, and I myself am most interested in this keris. I have been looking after it for about 40 something years now, I brought back from total destruction --- the burl wrongko was in pieces, the blade was bent and in very poor condition. This keris is a very good friend of mine.

I did not mean "social functions", I meant for a reason associated with society--- ie, a social reason.

12th January 2008, 08:06 AM	#2
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Holding this Kris Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference. thanks again Gav Attached Images

15th January 2008, 06:47 AM	#11
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Hmmm Thanks All. Looking at the black and white image of the kris being held, I can imagine this being quite a positive grip, looking at the colour image, although you tell me it is correct and I have no knowledge otherwise, I could see in the heat of fighting with sweat and blood being present, the grip on the handle does not look to convincing enough to be rigid, especially if resisitance like bone was met square one. I will however source a local Kris with the handle on the correct way and try it for myself. Thanks for everyones input on the subject of this Kris and other questions. regards Gavin

12th January 2008, 07:21 AM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Yeah, its quite pretty, and similar to Sharial's example. I do have others with this back to front handle, but I knew where this one was and could grab it immediately without having to look for it. I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other. Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

12th January 2008, 02:41 PM	#4
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi, I think this keris is a Straits Bugis keris, and most likely from the Sumatran side. The tapering batang and the style of the buntut tekak lipas ("cockroach throat") is not typical of peninsula malaysia; it is not so rounded, and the 'v' part bordering the batang is too far apart. The other hint is the hilt. Peninsula hulu kerdas usually does not curve that much downwards. The sampir is probably congruent with the Riau-Lingga style, though many people would confuse it with the very similar Terengganu style. The Riau-Lingga sampir style has a 'fuller body' and usually a more curving top line.

12th January 2008, 03:25 PM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi, Just guessing. My bet is that this is a malay keris that comes from northern peninsula, posibbly Kedah. Quite a number of keris coming out from Kedah has this kind of fittings. However, the blade is normally of the jalak jantan/betina type which this one is not. The hilt in my opinion does not belong to the sheath. It seems that it is of a later work. This type of sheath usually come with a jawa demam hilt. However the combination is still valid, if we want to accept that the fittings are Sumatran. It is also possible that this is a North Peninsula (not east coast) blade, but its just a guess.

13th January 2008, 01:51 AM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Rasdan, Why do you think that the hilt is a later work? I think both the hilt and sheath are contemporaries to each other. The blade of this keris could be found in either side of the Straits.

13th January 2008, 02:30 AM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Hi Blu, Yes, the combination is still valid. I think that its later because its from a different wood from the sampir. As far as i can see from the pics it looks much softer the work is almost probably from a different person. What i observe is that, later hilt usually uses softer wood. The blade quality and form looks quite different from the east cost one. But again, this is just a guessing game.

14th January 2008, 09:10 PM	#9
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	This is the way the hilt should be (or at least perpendicular to the blade still with the the shorter part toward the thumb and forefinger). David is right on the money - this is the way to use it to fight and be functional.

15th January 2008, 01:49 AM	#10
PenangsangII Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 401	Very unique gripping technique AlamShah Normally Bugis Sumatran (Central (I think)hilt style feels so good if held like the one AlamShah showed

12th January 2008, 12:19 PM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Very similar Shahrial, and I myself am most interested in this keris. I have been looking after it for about 40 something years now, I brought back from total destruction --- the burl wrongko was in pieces, the blade was bent and in very poor condition. This keris is a very good friend of mine. I did not mean "social functions", I meant for a reason associated with society--- ie, a social reason.