Looking for Information on this Kris.

Gavin Nugent · 12th January 2008, 02:11 AM

Thank you for the heads up Alan, I probably should have read the sticky threads a bit more closely, in particular #5 in the code of conduct, I do apologise fellow forumites, I will keep this type of question to myself.

Thanks again guys for norrowing all my speculation down to a more accurate place of origin, all input has been fantastic thus far and is interesting to hear about Kris being "put togethers" as far back as the late 1800's. Do you think this is the norm that influences tended to be a mixture of parts or just a result of amateur collection in the days of old?

thanks again

Gav

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 03:18 AM

The example I quoted was obtained in Sumatra by a seaman who worked on trading ships and was supposedly taken from a Sumatran gentleman in a fight. That could be family legend, but this information was given to me in an honest fashion and situation.

I've seen other stuff too that was a mix. Recently had a piece obtained as a gift in the the 1930's from a village chief in Sumatra referred to me. From memory that was Bugis/Jawa/ Palembang + some unidentifiable part ---forget the precise details, but it was a total mix.

Yeah, western collectors mix things too, as do dealers, but it has been happening in local areas for years also.

David · 12th January 2008, 05:40 AM

That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood.

I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood.

I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

Alan's example reminds me of my piece... [ see here ].
As for hilt orientation, I've seen pieces fixed solid to that orientation, (an example would be one of Paul de Souza's piece). David, I can't imagine as well.

If the wielder is a left hander (like myself), the blade orientation would also be at an angle from the other side.

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 07:21 AM

Yeah, its quite pretty, and similar to Sharial's example. I do have others with this back to front handle, but I knew where this one was and could grab it immediately without having to look for it. I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

Gavin Nugent · 12th January 2008, 08:06 AM

Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference.

thanks again

Gav

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by freebooter

Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference.

thanks again

Gav

The blade is supposed to be horizontal when held. Search the forum, there are a few pictures of how a keris is held.

Alam Shah · 12th January 2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

... I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other.

Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

For social function's perhaps... but why secure it at that position rendering the weapon less effective?

If the blade is similar, I would be interested in the piece...

A. G. Maisey · 12th January 2008, 12:19 PM

Very similar Shahrial, and I myself am most interested in this keris. I have been looking after it for about 40 something years now, I brought back from total destruction --- the burl wrongko was in pieces, the blade was bent and in very poor condition. This keris is a very good friend of mine.

I did not mean "social functions", I meant for a reason associated with society--- ie, a social reason.

12th January 2008, 02:11 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Thank you for the heads up Alan Thank you for the heads up Alan, I probably should have read the sticky threads a bit more closely, in particular #5 in the code of conduct, I do apologise fellow forumites, I will keep this type of question to myself. Thanks again guys for norrowing all my speculation down to a more accurate place of origin, all input has been fantastic thus far and is interesting to hear about Kris being "put togethers" as far back as the late 1800's. Do you think this is the norm that influences tended to be a mixture of parts or just a result of amateur collection in the days of old? thanks again Gav

12th January 2008, 08:06 AM	#6
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Holding this Kris Hi guys, I have attached a photo of my oversized hands holding this blade and it seems very natural and where my forefinger is adds a lot of support, I thought I'd just include it for reference. thanks again Gav Attached Images

12th January 2008, 03:18 AM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	The example I quoted was obtained in Sumatra by a seaman who worked on trading ships and was supposedly taken from a Sumatran gentleman in a fight. That could be family legend, but this information was given to me in an honest fashion and situation. I've seen other stuff too that was a mix. Recently had a piece obtained as a gift in the the 1930's from a village chief in Sumatra referred to me. From memory that was Bugis/Jawa/ Palembang + some unidentifiable part ---forget the precise details, but it was a total mix. Yeah, western collectors mix things too, as do dealers, but it has been happening in local areas for years also.

12th January 2008, 05:40 AM	#3
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,237	That's a funky looking sheath on that example you posted Alan. Beautiful wood. I certainly won't argue that occasionally you will find a bugis keris from an indigenous source with this type of hilt orientation...but i just can't imagine what kind of proper grip the owner could have when using his keris as a weapon.

12th January 2008, 07:21 AM	#5
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Yeah, its quite pretty, and similar to Sharial's example. I do have others with this back to front handle, but I knew where this one was and could grab it immediately without having to look for it. I've wondered about the weapon function myself, and have thought that maybe it is turned back to front like this for some social reason, possibly indicating that the owner does not use it as a weapon for some reason or other. Incidentally, the blade is also similar.

12th January 2008, 12:19 PM	#9
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,056	Very similar Shahrial, and I myself am most interested in this keris. I have been looking after it for about 40 something years now, I brought back from total destruction --- the burl wrongko was in pieces, the blade was bent and in very poor condition. This keris is a very good friend of mine. I did not mean "social functions", I meant for a reason associated with society--- ie, a social reason.