Looking for Information on this Kris.

A. G. Maisey · 11th January 2008, 09:41 PM

In counting the waves in a blade you start on the first wave above the gandik and criss-cross the blade, finishing on the same side that you started. The total must be uneven. Even in the exceptionally rare style of keris where the point turns to the wadidang, it is best to add a nominal luk to give the required uneven number. A keris is male. Even numbers are female. This blade has 11 waves, and the tenth wave is not difficult to see.

I do not think that the kembang kacang has been replaced or repaired. In the close-up the metal grain is quite distinct, but there does seem to be some sort of a score across the base of the kembang kacang on one side.

I have had in my possession a number of keris of this generic Bugis style that had the hilt orientated as is the hilt on this keris. In all cases they had been fixed that way in the culture from which they came, as they had been fixed with damar, and were in original condition. I have also seen a photo of somebody wearing a keris of this style with the hilt on "back to front". I have no idea why they were sometimes fixed in this way, but they were.

Exact area of origin?

I have no idea. Generically it is Bugis, but Bugis from where? Don't know. I will observe that it does not display the typical Bugis blade cross section, so it unlikely to be Sulawesi. Peninsula? North Coast Sumatra? Anybody's guess is as good as mine.

Age? Looks second half 19th century to me, but that is just opinion, and cannot be backed up with analysis a la tangguh, as we can do with Jawa blades.

All in all, I reckon its a pretty decent old piece. If the hilt is loosely fixed , ie, held by tension only, twist it around. If it is not, leave it as it is. There are precedents. Here is an example.

Gavin Nugent · 11th January 2008, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

In counting the waves in a blade you start on the first wave above the gandik and criss-cross the blade, finishing on the same side that you started. The total must be uneven. Even in the exceptionally rare style of keris where the point turns to the wadidang, it is best to add a nominal luk to give the required uneven number. A keris is male. Even numbers are female. This blade has 11 waves, and the tenth wave is not difficult to see.

Thank you for your help Alan, I have read many of your threads with great interest and continue to follow this forum quite enthusiastically in the back ground. I am grateful to have the starting point of the luks on this Kris pointed out to me.
With regards to the hilt being turned the correct way...it is rock solid so it will have to stay as is.
In further research, do you think the brass pendokok would be a help in finding it's origins or in your opinion are there better reference points within this Kris to follow up?
You have all given me much food for thought and points of reference for further research, thank you.
Just as an interest and I know this subject is quite speculative, but what monetary value would you put on this piece, I only ask as it has a twin brother that I spoke of above, sitting in a collection and if I was to make an offer what would be considered fair.

best regards

Gavin

A. G. Maisey · 11th January 2008, 11:21 PM

Gavin old mate, we don't don't talk about the filthy lucre in this place.

No mention of money, valuations. commercial opinions, or even the barest hint of anything that might smell of commerce.

The hilt may be firmly fixed, but it would be easy to remove if necessary, however, since it is firm it is likely that way because of damar, rather than araldite---at least I'd like to think so-- my remarks were a suggestion that it be left like that.

Gavin, unless we know that a keris was collected in a certain place, and that all components are stylisticly correct for that place, it is very often quite difficult to say that keris from areas outside the major classifications originated in such and such a place. I have had many keris with excellent provenance dating back in some cases more than 100 years, referred to me for identification. Often these keris will be a mix of parts from various places, periods and styles. Once you move away from a kraton influenced area it seems that people have always grabbed whatever they could to mount their keris. I recently obtained a really beautiful keris in a broken Solo gayaman, the blade was South Sumatra gonjo iras, the hilt was textbook Bugis, the pendongkok was textbook Palembang. It was collected in Sumatra in approximately 1880.

To me, this keris looks Peninsula because of the blade cross section, standard of workmanship, and material; the wrongko looks like a coastal area of maybe North Sumatra, but really, I know diddley squat about these sort of keris. If somebody else says different and can give cogent reasons I'll believe them.

11th January 2008, 09:41 PM	#1
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	In counting the waves in a blade you start on the first wave above the gandik and criss-cross the blade, finishing on the same side that you started. The total must be uneven. Even in the exceptionally rare style of keris where the point turns to the wadidang, it is best to add a nominal luk to give the required uneven number. A keris is male. Even numbers are female. This blade has 11 waves, and the tenth wave is not difficult to see. I do not think that the kembang kacang has been replaced or repaired. In the close-up the metal grain is quite distinct, but there does seem to be some sort of a score across the base of the kembang kacang on one side. I have had in my possession a number of keris of this generic Bugis style that had the hilt orientated as is the hilt on this keris. In all cases they had been fixed that way in the culture from which they came, as they had been fixed with damar, and were in original condition. I have also seen a photo of somebody wearing a keris of this style with the hilt on "back to front". I have no idea why they were sometimes fixed in this way, but they were. Exact area of origin? I have no idea. Generically it is Bugis, but Bugis from where? Don't know. I will observe that it does not display the typical Bugis blade cross section, so it unlikely to be Sulawesi. Peninsula? North Coast Sumatra? Anybody's guess is as good as mine. Age? Looks second half 19th century to me, but that is just opinion, and cannot be backed up with analysis a la tangguh, as we can do with Jawa blades. All in all, I reckon its a pretty decent old piece. If the hilt is loosely fixed , ie, held by tension only, twist it around. If it is not, leave it as it is. There are precedents. Here is an example. Attached Images

11th January 2008, 11:21 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Gavin old mate, we don't don't talk about the filthy lucre in this place. No mention of money, valuations. commercial opinions, or even the barest hint of anything that might smell of commerce. The hilt may be firmly fixed, but it would be easy to remove if necessary, however, since it is firm it is likely that way because of damar, rather than araldite---at least I'd like to think so-- my remarks were a suggestion that it be left like that. Gavin, unless we know that a keris was collected in a certain place, and that all components are stylisticly correct for that place, it is very often quite difficult to say that keris from areas outside the major classifications originated in such and such a place. I have had many keris with excellent provenance dating back in some cases more than 100 years, referred to me for identification. Often these keris will be a mix of parts from various places, periods and styles. Once you move away from a kraton influenced area it seems that people have always grabbed whatever they could to mount their keris. I recently obtained a really beautiful keris in a broken Solo gayaman, the blade was South Sumatra gonjo iras, the hilt was textbook Bugis, the pendongkok was textbook Palembang. It was collected in Sumatra in approximately 1880. To me, this keris looks Peninsula because of the blade cross section, standard of workmanship, and material; the wrongko looks like a coastal area of maybe North Sumatra, but really, I know diddley squat about these sort of keris. If somebody else says different and can give cogent reasons I'll believe them.