Pesh Kabz

Tim Simmons · 9th January 2008, 08:22 PM

Note the reference to the women wearing a horned headdress and the depiction of women on the scabbard mouth.

ALEX · 9th January 2008, 11:09 PM

This is incredible research Tim !!! Fascinating. I also think it is special dagger.

Ariel, which dagger were you refferring to? Mine is only 2 x 2, not all drive:-)
The 4th dot is not a rivet, it is just a spot on the handle.

Jim McDougall · 10th January 2008, 12:35 AM

Alex, the term 'calyx' refers to the flueret like element on the back of the blade which appears in line with the backstrap of the hilt. As mentioned, this has consistantly appeared to me a Central Asian affectation.
As has been noted, from the mid 19th century, the demarcation between North India and Central Asia, that is Afghanistan and the Northwest Frontier regions that are now Pakistan were anything but clear. Naturally the cross diffusion of weapons was typical, and if I am not mistaken, the Afghan daggers similar to the pesh kabz were either karud or the choora, both with straight rather than recurved blade. We know that tulwars were often found in Afghan regions, and the paluoar, the distinctively recognized Afghan sabre likely had its origins in the Deccan.

Tim, incredibly astute association there!!!

Those figures do indeed seem to be Kalash, and the Kalash do remain as an independant tribe in Chitral. They still maintain distinct tribal customs and traditions from thier origins in Kafiristan and I once had very interesting communications with a group here in the U.S. who are organized to preserve thier tribal identity. The Kafirs were the focus of the Rudyard Kipling classic "The Man Who Would be King".

All best regards,
Jim

Tatyana Dianova · 10th January 2008, 04:04 PM

Tim, thank you for very interesting information.
I thought that the dagger was from some Afghani tribe with the Persian influence, but the female image was always looking strange to me

The seller claimed that this dagger was in private German collection up from the beginning of the 20th century.

Alex, forgive me for using your thread

Jens Nordlunde · 10th January 2008, 04:25 PM

Tatyana,

Its a nice dagger you have – I don’t know what to call it, so I won’t try to invent a name.

Lovely blade, very nice hilt, but the scabbard is the most curious thing, notice that the women are on the inside of the scabbard mount, so that no one would see them.

Jens

Jim McDougall · 10th January 2008, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jens Nordlunde

Tatyana,

Its a nice dagger you have – I don’t know what to call it, so I won’t try to invent a name.

Lovely blade, very nice hilt, but the scabbard is the most curious thing, notice that the women are on the inside of the scabbard mount, so that no one would see them.

Jens

Thats really interesting Jens! I didnt notice the figures are on the inside. I still think Tim is onto something with the Kalash association.

All the best,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 10th January 2008, 09:04 PM

All depends on how you carry your knife, left or right handed. One might wear it one way in a given situation and differently in another. One thing for sure it is unorthodox in the extreme.

ALEX · 10th January 2008, 05:47 PM

Tatyana, no need to apologise. It's all related. Besides, we learned something new.

9th January 2008, 08:22 PM	#1
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	Note the reference to the women wearing a horned headdress and the depiction of women on the scabbard mouth.

9th January 2008, 11:09 PM	#2
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	This is incredible research Tim !!! Fascinating. I also think it is special dagger. Ariel, which dagger were you refferring to? Mine is only 2 x 2, not all drive:-) The 4th dot is not a rivet, it is just a spot on the handle.

10th January 2008, 12:35 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Alex, the term 'calyx' refers to the flueret like element on the back of the blade which appears in line with the backstrap of the hilt. As mentioned, this has consistantly appeared to me a Central Asian affectation. As has been noted, from the mid 19th century, the demarcation between North India and Central Asia, that is Afghanistan and the Northwest Frontier regions that are now Pakistan were anything but clear. Naturally the cross diffusion of weapons was typical, and if I am not mistaken, the Afghan daggers similar to the pesh kabz were either karud or the choora, both with straight rather than recurved blade. We know that tulwars were often found in Afghan regions, and the paluoar, the distinctively recognized Afghan sabre likely had its origins in the Deccan. Tim, incredibly astute association there!!! Those figures do indeed seem to be Kalash, and the Kalash do remain as an independant tribe in Chitral. They still maintain distinct tribal customs and traditions from thier origins in Kafiristan and I once had very interesting communications with a group here in the U.S. who are organized to preserve thier tribal identity. The Kafirs were the focus of the Rudyard Kipling classic "The Man Who Would be King". All best regards, Jim

10th January 2008, 04:04 PM	#4
Tatyana Dianova Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 736	Tim, thank you for very interesting information. I thought that the dagger was from some Afghani tribe with the Persian influence, but the female image was always looking strange to me The seller claimed that this dagger was in private German collection up from the beginning of the 20th century. Alex, forgive me for using your thread

10th January 2008, 04:25 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Tatyana, Its a nice dagger you have – I don’t know what to call it, so I won’t try to invent a name. Lovely blade, very nice hilt, but the scabbard is the most curious thing, notice that the women are on the inside of the scabbard mount, so that no one would see them. Jens

10th January 2008, 09:04 PM	#7
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	All depends on how you carry your knife, left or right handed. One might wear it one way in a given situation and differently in another. One thing for sure it is unorthodox in the extreme.

10th January 2008, 05:47 PM	#8
ALEX Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 936	Tatyana, no need to apologise. It's all related. Besides, we learned something new.