Pirate swords and weapons

[Robert]

Well I can't say that this was ever on a ship but I do think loaded with nails or shot it would have been quite helpful if you had to clear the decks. It was originally a flint lock that was later converted to musket cap.

Total length is 30 inches
Barrel is 16-1/2 inches
Bore about 3/4 inch


Robert

[Jim McDougall]

Hi Gav,
Thank you for posting those illustrations out of "The Pirates". That Time-Life book has some of the greatest photos and illustrations, and really brought things to life when reading about these scoundrels
Its great to have those pictures here to bring that dimension to the discussion while we examine the many different types of weapons actually used by them. While those illustrated are pretty much the standard forms estimated in use, we have seen that in reality there was an amazingly wide spectrum of forms from equally widely ranged cultural spheres.

Good suggestion on Barry Clifford, especially on the discovery of the "Whydah". It seems that among the artifacts discovered, I believe there was the remains of one of the pistols with ribbon still festooned to it. Interesting to think of these pre-revolver days with one gun having six shots instead of having to wear six pistols!

Thanks for the musket Robert, quite literally a hand held cannon! No doubt, as you have noted, it would clear a deck pretty quick!

All best regards,
Jim

[BBJW]

Carrying 6 or more single shot pistols was quite a load, but Jesse James and others in Quantrill's Raiders were known to carry more than 20 revolvers on and about them and their horses on raids. That was a lot of firepower in the 1860's! On shipboard one of the best guns was the swivel gun ususally mounted on both sides of the bridge. I'm building one now and when it is finished I'll post it. It has a 1.75 inch bore and I have test fired it with shot. Absolutely devastating out to 25 yards.

Shiver me timbers
bbjw

[Rick]

As a personal aside, seeing as how I've rubbed elbows with many of the principals involved in the Whidah Galley project in our local watering holes .

Before we get too far with Mr. Clifford might I recommend a read:

Walking The Plank by Stephen Kiesling ( ISBN 0-9638461-5-9 ) for another perspective on this controversial Gentleman and his discoveries .

[Jim McDougall]

Thanks for the heads up Rick. Don't know much about him except the "Whydah" . Much like many intense and professional fields, that of archaeology, and in this case nautical archaeology, there are tremendous politics and personalities issues it seems.
I had the opportunity for some one on one discussions with some of those involved with a number of shipwreck discoveries, and the extreme intensity became quite apparant.
I'll have to look into that book your recommend

All best regards,
Jim

[Rick]

It's a good read Jim, I'll lend you my copy if you'd like .
PM me .

[fernando]

Originally Posted by BBJW

Carrying 6 or more single shot pistols was quite a load, but Jesse James and others in Quantrill's Raiders were known to carry more than 20 revolvers on and about them and their horses on raids. That was a lot of firepower in the 1860's!
Shiver me timbers
bbjw

Untill after firearms were instantly reloadable, action folks indeed used to carry lots of them.
It is said that, for example, during American civil war, colts were thrown away after discharging their six rounds, to get free a hand to handle the next one.
After the battle, troopers used to go around the action field, to gain them back, sometimes ending up gainning somebody else's piece.That's why there are plenty "captured" colts being offered out there.
Fernando

[fernando]

A typical modified specimen, an often resource procedure, that would qualify for a rank and file pirate.
The lock is a patilha ( miquelete ) one, potentialy Spanish, end XVIII century, later converted to percussion. The stock of Cataluña fashion, maybe not the original one, but certainly old stuff. The barrel is British proofed, Brown Bess type of an early version, i wonder if from the trade circuit, or eventualy captured or left back in battle.
Both barrel and stock were shortened, the barrel flared, to convert this piece for close action, as used also aboard ships.
... A form of Bacamarte, or Trabuco, or Blunderbuss.
Maybe it never belonged to a seaman ... but who knows ?

[Gavin Nugent]

Nice postings guys, Fernando, you always suprise me with what comes out of the wood work.
I'll source myself a copy asap thanks Rick, if you know of any for sale from someone who will ship to Australia please let me know.

thanks.

Gav

[Rick]

Since colonial days to be charged with Barratry (1970's) came from my home town .

Pirates are everywhere .












Arrr ...

[A. G. Maisey]

This morning is the first time I have read this thread, which I have found to be of some interest, however, there are a couple of things I would like to comment on.

Firstly, there is the question of exactly what a pirate is:- how do we define a "pirate"?

In the sense implied by this discussion, Oxford tells us that a pirate is one who attacks and robs ships at sea.

This raises the question of whether we can refer to the Iban as "pirates".

The Iban raided coastal and inland settlements, principally of Land Dyaks. They raided for two reasons:- heads and slaves; the heads were an integral part of their culture and tied into tribal continuity, the slaves were necessary labour to assist with rice farming--- the Iban were rice farmers, not forest dwellers.

Because the primary targets of the Iban were more often than not the Land Dyak, this put the Iban on a collision course with James Brooke.

The Iban would raid in fleets of hundreds of war canoes, Brookes had no army, and unless he could gain the backing of the British government his attempts to carve a minor kingdom for himself would fail. Suddenly the rice farmers of several different river systems became "Sea Dyaks", and "pirates". Up to this point they had been known as Skrang, Undup Dyak, Saribas, Balau---but because Brooke needed British government backing these people suddenly became "pirates", and "Sea Dyaks". The British government latched on to this terminology and the Royal Navy jumped in to give Brookes a hand at subduing these evil 19th century terrorists.

By any reasonable measure the Iban were not pirates. They were rice farmers whose culture demanded heads, and whose economic survival demanded slaves. Their targets were not ships at sea, but settlements where they could obtain these necessities.

Yes, there were pirates in maritime South East Asia. They were for the main part coastal Malays , usually fishermen, who had struck trouble in making a living from fishing. When the fish started to run again, they would leave the pirating and go back to fishing. This is, I understand, still the case today

[Tim Simmons]

I think there are still villains not fishermen today in the South China Seas, South America , the Caribbean and there abouts. I believe they use what is known as a "rib" and a machine gun. They sound like rich opportunist fishermen to me even in the past .
http://www.military.com/forums/0,15240,103960,00.html

[Jim McDougall]

Hello Alan,
What a pleasure to have you post on this thread, which I am glad you have found interesting, and the subject of the 'sea Dyaks' is one that I had in mind when I first started the topic. The objective here has been to add dimension to the now cliche' term 'pirate' and examine the broader scope of piracy worldwide as well as the equally broad scope of weaponry used.

I have seen the Dyak 'mandau' or parang ihlang, which I think is the proper term for these interesting swords, among groupings of 'pirate' weapons in some of the rather cursory books on pirates. I thought it was interesting that what seemed at first a 'coffee table' book, actually stepped outside the bounds of the 'Pirates of the Caribbean' image. That and several other notes that indicated the very widespread and still extant social phenomenon known as piracy was indeed quite much more complex than its romanticized treatment in literature.

Thank you very much for your concise and intriguing description of the Dyaks, which perfectly adds the perspective needed in expanding our understanding of piracy and its true dimension.

With all very best regards,
Jim

[A. G. Maisey]

Jim, as far as actual pirate weaponry goes, I reckon the real pirates used whatever they had to hand. I've even seen a picture of keris somewhere that was supposedly taken from a pirate.

As for expanding the concept of "pirates" and their weapons --- how about corporations, their CEO's, and the teams of accountants, lawyers and other specialists that they call upon?
These blokes make Edward Teach look like a gentleman.

[M ELEY]

Wanted to bring this one back before it dropped off the list! Finally got some pics made of my collection. Rick (RSword) has generously agreed to help me post them as soon as he can. I'll start commentary soon so as to save time. I hope to get a little feedback on one of them that remains a mystery to me. Will comment soon...

[HangPC2]

Meriam Kota Lukut (Negeri Sembilan)



Location : Muzium & Kota Lukut, Negeri Sembilan







Sources : http://artmelayu.blogspot.com/







Meriam Lela Rentaka 1850's (Perak)




A Rentaka is a cannon made by the Malays in copper. Lela is the name of a lady & Rentaka means strong. Gun, sulphur & gun powder was used as fire power. Lela Rentaka is versatile & can be used mounted on boats. During the Pasir Salak War, the Malays used the Lela Rentaka extensively. The 1st record of its use was during the rule of Malacca Sultanate and the fight against the Portuguese in 1511. This Lela Rentaka was made in 1850's.




Location : Kompleks Sejarah Pasir Salak



















Sources : http://azizanzolkipli.multiply.com

[HangPC2]

Meriam Lela Che Pandak Ibrahim (Perak)




Location : Muzium Perak

















Pemuras (Perak)











Sources : http://azizanzolkipli.multiply.com