Congo/Gabon/W African dance axe?

katana · 3rd January 2008, 10:09 PM

Hi Tim
I've just added 6 spears to my collection.....one may be of interest to this thread. If you look at the decoration on one of them...it appears very similar to the design on the ferrule on your 'Ram dao' .....alas I do not know the origins

Regards

Tim Simmons · 4th January 2008, 08:37 AM

Nice set of spear David, they look like Sudan/Congo Zande and Mangbetu they could be from else where ofcourse. The marks have some similarity. I am thinking that the axe? may relate more to this type of thing. The proportions are very similar to the axe? is 2.5cm longer.

Freddy · 4th January 2008, 04:10 PM

Interesting axe, Tim. I have never seen one like this before.

In your last post, you show a Momvu sickle knife. In his book 'The Sickle Weapons' (2000), the author, Jan Elsen, gives an oversight of the different types of sickle weapons found in Central East Africa. It's possible that your axe fits in this category.
These are the prototypes (according to the author) from which the Mangbetu and also the Momvu knives evolved.

I scanned the pages (I hope it's clear enough) :

Here's a sickle knife I recently found on ebay and that fits into this category.

Tim Simmons · 4th January 2008, 05:41 PM

Thanks Freddy, I think that you and David are closer to the mark. I have now ruled out West Africa on the grounds that all the status objects in my collection from the trade coast are in terms of pure construction far more sophisticated in that the artisans have a more broad palette of influences.
This piece is clearly a special item but it is of simple construction which reflects a more isolated region. To me much of the artist value is carried in the handle and its carving. The blade, although beautiful, is secondary. In my opinion it is really made to be seen held like a baton hence the swelling in the centre of the handle so a display of more carving is possible. I will show pictures of views that at the moment we have just to guess at.

Tim Simmons · 9th January 2008, 05:26 PM

I have had this for a few days now but I have not been able to catch day light for pictures. It is not really an axe, more a long handled knife. The blade is well made light and sharp enough to shave with. In general it is dainty , fine and has been used. I cannot explain more without the use of pictures. I think it is East African, somewhere?

Tim Simmons · 10th January 2008, 08:36 PM

Here are some more pictures. This is not an axe but you can chop with it as you can see when looking at the use on the blade. I feel it is a knife with a long handle which seems to me that it could be held in three positions. Griped around the part near the blade, griped around the middle using the projection by the thumb as support and finally at the far end with the projection as a stop at the palm of the hand.

Is it a weapon? well there is some reach to slash with as well as slashing close in. The blade is razor sharp, a rub on a strop and you could shave with it as I mentioned before. How big does a blade have to be to slice up a half naked opponent. It is a fine piece of steel. I cannot say it is hollow ground to each side in the standard way but when passed through the thumb and fore fingers you can feel that the blade has concave sides. The wood and carving and fine shaving marks are identical to the South Sudan club. So I suspect it is from eastern region and not the elusive Dahomey amazons razor weapon. Somewhere I have heard the slogan "seek and ye shall find" fingers crossed.

3rd January 2008, 10:09 PM	#1
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Tim I've just added 6 spears to my collection.....one may be of interest to this thread. If you look at the decoration on one of them...it appears very similar to the design on the ferrule on your 'Ram dao' .....alas I do not know the origins Regards Attached Images

4th January 2008, 08:37 AM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Nice set of spear David, they look like Sudan/Congo Zande and Mangbetu they could be from else where ofcourse. The marks have some similarity. I am thinking that the axe? may relate more to this type of thing. The proportions are very similar to the axe? is 2.5cm longer. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 4th January 2008 at 08:54 AM.

10th January 2008, 08:36 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Here are some more pictures. This is not an axe but you can chop with it as you can see when looking at the use on the blade. I feel it is a knife with a long handle which seems to me that it could be held in three positions. Griped around the part near the blade, griped around the middle using the projection by the thumb as support and finally at the far end with the projection as a stop at the palm of the hand. Is it a weapon? well there is some reach to slash with as well as slashing close in. The blade is razor sharp, a rub on a strop and you could shave with it as I mentioned before. How big does a blade have to be to slice up a half naked opponent. It is a fine piece of steel. I cannot say it is hollow ground to each side in the standard way but when passed through the thumb and fore fingers you can feel that the blade has concave sides. The wood and carving and fine shaving marks are identical to the South Sudan club. So I suspect it is from eastern region and not the elusive Dahomey amazons razor weapon. Somewhere I have heard the slogan "seek and ye shall find" fingers crossed. Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th January 2008 at 08:49 PM.

4th January 2008, 04:10 PM	#3
Freddy Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sint-Amandsberg (near Ghent, Belgium) Posts: 830	Interesting axe, Tim. I have never seen one like this before. In your last post, you show a Momvu sickle knife. In his book 'The Sickle Weapons' (2000), the author, Jan Elsen, gives an oversight of the different types of sickle weapons found in Central East Africa. It's possible that your axe fits in this category. These are the prototypes (according to the author) from which the Mangbetu and also the Momvu knives evolved. I scanned the pages (I hope it's clear enough) : Here's a sickle knife I recently found on ebay and that fits into this category.

4th January 2008, 05:41 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	Thanks Freddy, I think that you and David are closer to the mark. I have now ruled out West Africa on the grounds that all the status objects in my collection from the trade coast are in terms of pure construction far more sophisticated in that the artisans have a more broad palette of influences. This piece is clearly a special item but it is of simple construction which reflects a more isolated region. To me much of the artist value is carried in the handle and its carving. The blade, although beautiful, is secondary. In my opinion it is really made to be seen held like a baton hence the swelling in the centre of the handle so a display of more carving is possible. I will show pictures of views that at the moment we have just to guess at.

9th January 2008, 05:26 PM	#5
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,843	I have had this for a few days now but I have not been able to catch day light for pictures. It is not really an axe, more a long handled knife. The blade is well made light and sharp enough to shave with. In general it is dainty , fine and has been used. I cannot explain more without the use of pictures. I think it is East African, somewhere?