Help. Could this be what it looks like ?

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2007, 04:51 PM

What a fantastic presentation Kronckew! As I mentioned, this topic is well outside my regular field of study, and this material is truly educational and very much appreciated.
David, I am always captivated by your deductive reasoning and well laid out responses, which always seem to energize the discussion at hand. I'm always amazed at the core of knowledge here by so many members on such a wide field of topics, and its always exciting to all keep learning together.

Again Fernando, thank you for never hesitating to post the unusual items you discover. Although many times not directly related to ethnographic edged weapons, its often surprising how many clues with them sometimes do have some application to either the weapons themselves, or the perspective on the period.

Thanks very much guys!

All the best,
Jim

fernando · 31st December 2007, 06:46 PM

Gentlemen

I can't bear such imense satisfaction at reading your coments and data pouring in.

I will have to digest all that and also phone the seller before i dare to reply with some sense.

Say David, can you post the link containing that grenade ball with the two side rings ?

Fernando

fernando · 31st December 2007, 08:39 PM

I thank you all again to gather at this brain storm.
This device is surely appealing, no doubt.
Now ...
If not a prisoner ball and chain
If also not cannon ball
I would go back to the counterweight version, like those used in mechanical wind mills that pull water from wells ... You know what i mean ?
Tomorrow i'll go around country to look better to those mills.
We all agree, Vandoo, that it could have had two suspension ring loops instead of the present one.
The chain was surely prolongated, as we can see by the different patterns.
Also the first section of the chain could have been looped back to the hipothetical second ring on the ball; that was a brilliant deduction, David.
But then, why the addition ... a second function ?
On the other hand, the chain links are well worn, in both sections. Whatever this device was, its function was not static, like it was dragged or rolled all the time ... and that's an important point to consider.
Concerning the weight, being the ball diameter close to 6", if it were a solid cannon ball, would be a 24 pounder, right ? However we must deduct the hole ... but add the chain.
It is not a grenade or a case shot, as it is not hollowed enough. Its hole is cilindrical and all through; i still wonder why somebody plugged the end contrary to the hanging device.
Just something to keep exercizing one's brains.
Fernando

fernando · 1st January 2008, 05:37 PM

I am deeply sorry this object is not connected with gunnery or even with restraint devices, thus missing its collecting interest.
It took me eighty miles around country, partly under heavy rain, through some six farm wind mills completely abandoned and missing their machinery, till i found one in working condition, where we can clearly see that the discussed ball and chains belong to that kind of apparatus.
The pictures are penalized by the weather conditions, but it's all there; the upper ball suspended by two rings, and the intermediary ball with an orifice to enable the chain to pass through, to suspend the lowest one.
I highly apreciate the efforts of the involved members in trying to figure out what this thing would be, and i feel much obliged for their kind cooperation.
My humble respects
Fernando

kronckew · 1st January 2008, 08:08 PM

well, learning something new is a good way to start the new year....

Jim McDougall · 1st January 2008, 08:59 PM

Absolutely Kronckew!

Fernando, thank you so much for sharing this, and especially for your diligent efforts to finally solve this mystery. Whether directly related to our central field of study or not, this thread has been fun and informative, and I truly have learned from the great posts.
A great detective story!....now for the movie!!!

You're the best Fernando!

All very best regards,
Jim

P.S. Great pictures,looks like beautiful country. Is that an RV park? Maybe if I could get some floats on this thing!!!

hmmm.

fernando · 2nd January 2008, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim McDougall

P.S. Great pictures,looks like beautiful country. Is that an RV park? Maybe if I could get some floats on this thing!!!

hmmm.

Keen eye, Jim

.
It's a camping site in a little country reserve.
Can't you mount some surf boards on your vessel ?

31st December 2007, 08:39 PM	#3
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Some loose notes for the time being I thank you all again to gather at this brain storm. This device is surely appealing, no doubt. Now ... If not a prisoner ball and chain If also not cannon ball I would go back to the counterweight version, like those used in mechanical wind mills that pull water from wells ... You know what i mean ? Tomorrow i'll go around country to look better to those mills. We all agree, Vandoo, that it could have had two suspension ring loops instead of the present one. The chain was surely prolongated, as we can see by the different patterns. Also the first section of the chain could have been looped back to the hipothetical second ring on the ball; that was a brilliant deduction, David. But then, why the addition ... a second function ? On the other hand, the chain links are well worn, in both sections. Whatever this device was, its function was not static, like it was dragged or rolled all the time ... and that's an important point to consider. Concerning the weight, being the ball diameter close to 6", if it were a solid cannon ball, would be a 24 pounder, right ? However we must deduct the hole ... but add the chain. It is not a grenade or a case shot, as it is not hollowed enough. Its hole is cilindrical and all through; i still wonder why somebody plugged the end contrary to the hanging device. Just something to keep exercizing one's brains. Fernando Attached Images

1st January 2008, 05:37 PM	#4
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	End of enigma I am deeply sorry this object is not connected with gunnery or even with restraint devices, thus missing its collecting interest. It took me eighty miles around country, partly under heavy rain, through some six farm wind mills completely abandoned and missing their machinery, till i found one in working condition, where we can clearly see that the discussed ball and chains belong to that kind of apparatus. The pictures are penalized by the weather conditions, but it's all there; the upper ball suspended by two rings, and the intermediary ball with an orifice to enable the chain to pass through, to suspend the lowest one. I highly apreciate the efforts of the involved members in trying to figure out what this thing would be, and i feel much obliged for their kind cooperation. My humble respects Fernando Attached Images

31st December 2007, 04:51 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,284	What a fantastic presentation Kronckew! As I mentioned, this topic is well outside my regular field of study, and this material is truly educational and very much appreciated. David, I am always captivated by your deductive reasoning and well laid out responses, which always seem to energize the discussion at hand. I'm always amazed at the core of knowledge here by so many members on such a wide field of topics, and its always exciting to all keep learning together. Again Fernando, thank you for never hesitating to post the unusual items you discover. Although many times not directly related to ethnographic edged weapons, its often surprising how many clues with them sometimes do have some application to either the weapons themselves, or the perspective on the period. Thanks very much guys! All the best, Jim

31st December 2007, 06:46 PM	#2
fernando (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Portugal Posts: 9,694	Gentlemen I can't bear such imense satisfaction at reading your coments and data pouring in. I will have to digest all that and also phone the seller before i dare to reply with some sense. Say David, can you post the link containing that grenade ball with the two side rings ? Fernando

1st January 2008, 08:08 PM	#5
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	well, learning something new is a good way to start the new year....

1st January 2008, 08:59 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,284	Absolutely Kronckew! Fernando, thank you so much for sharing this, and especially for your diligent efforts to finally solve this mystery. Whether directly related to our central field of study or not, this thread has been fun and informative, and I truly have learned from the great posts. A great detective story!....now for the movie!!! You're the best Fernando! All very best regards, Jim P.S. Great pictures,looks like beautiful country. Is that an RV park? Maybe if I could get some floats on this thing!!! hmmm.