Pickaxes of the Thuggee

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2007, 02:49 AM

Thank you so much Rick!!! I recall you always did have keen interest in Indian and Central Asian esoterica.

All the best
Jim

Rick · 31st December 2007, 03:56 AM

Thanks Jim !

I wonder how accurate the depictions of the weapons in that old engraving are ?
If you are digging a hole you don't want something with an acute point; a point yes, but acute as shown in the engraving ?!?!?

There's got to be a photo of one out there somewhere ....

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2007, 04:22 AM

I agree Rick, and I suspect that the illustration are the product of the artists imaging of a 'pickaxe' drawn from assumption rather than an actual example. While it is exciting to see a period illustration, it is unlikely from an actual example, which seem pretty elusive.
I would think that for digging, the point would be wide across for penetrating and moving the soil. It is suggested that these were much like the trenching axes used by British forces in WWI, so maybe if we can find an example of one of those we might have some idea.
Thanks again Rick for coming in on this!
We'll keep looking

All the best,
Jim

spiral · 31st December 2007, 09:35 AM

Yes Rick, Jim, I agree that with old ingravings accuracy varies so much, but the tulwar grip in that one looks a bit unusual! so artistic licence may play a part.Looks like a form of Zaghnal almost.

Heres the ww1 Brit. entrenching tool

I have the head from one, Id guess the head weighs about 24oz max., it is very effective for digging through roots & hard clay soil etc.

Spiral

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2007, 05:58 PM

Thanks very much Spiral. I figured if anybody were to locate one of these British entrenching axes it would be you

I agree, the rather distorted image of that tulwar pretty much says it on the potential accuracy of the weapons!
The shape of the head on this entrenching tool seems more in line with what I picture with the thuggee form with more of a claw type shape (without the shovel of course

.

All the best,
Jim

kronckew · 1st January 2008, 08:36 PM

as a slight aside, the head of the ww1 entrenching tool was dismountable for storage, a cast steel mace head was also supplied that could be used in it's place for trench warfare.

mine (shaft is not original)

Jim McDougall · 1st January 2008, 08:53 PM

Thanks very much Kronckew! that looks like a serious headache maker! It seems like it is similar to something that came up on a recent thread discussing some of the mace type weapons hafted with sword hilts in India. In discussing many of these I think we are reminded of the thin line parallel between weapons and tools.

All very best regards,
Jim

31st December 2007, 05:58 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,377	Thanks very much Spiral. I figured if anybody were to locate one of these British entrenching axes it would be you I agree, the rather distorted image of that tulwar pretty much says it on the potential accuracy of the weapons! The shape of the head on this entrenching tool seems more in line with what I picture with the thuggee form with more of a claw type shape (without the shovel of course. All the best, Jim

31st December 2007, 02:49 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,377	Thank you so much Rick!!! I recall you always did have keen interest in Indian and Central Asian esoterica. All the best Jim

31st December 2007, 03:56 AM	#2
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,343	Thanks Jim ! I wonder how accurate the depictions of the weapons in that old engraving are ? If you are digging a hole you don't want something with an acute point; a point yes, but acute as shown in the engraving ?!?!? There's got to be a photo of one out there somewhere ....

31st December 2007, 04:22 AM	#3
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,377	I agree Rick, and I suspect that the illustration are the product of the artists imaging of a 'pickaxe' drawn from assumption rather than an actual example. While it is exciting to see a period illustration, it is unlikely from an actual example, which seem pretty elusive. I would think that for digging, the point would be wide across for penetrating and moving the soil. It is suggested that these were much like the trenching axes used by British forces in WWI, so maybe if we can find an example of one of those we might have some idea. Thanks again Rick for coming in on this! We'll keep looking All the best, Jim

31st December 2007, 09:35 AM	#4
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Yes Rick, Jim, I agree that with old ingravings accuracy varies so much, but the tulwar grip in that one looks a bit unusual! so artistic licence may play a part.Looks like a form of Zaghnal almost. Heres the ww1 Brit. entrenching tool I have the head from one, Id guess the head weighs about 24oz max., it is very effective for digging through roots & hard clay soil etc. Spiral

1st January 2008, 08:36 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,232	as a slight aside, the head of the ww1 entrenching tool was dismountable for storage, a cast steel mace head was also supplied that could be used in it's place for trench warfare. mine (shaft is not original)

1st January 2008, 08:53 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,377	Thanks very much Kronckew! that looks like a serious headache maker! It seems like it is similar to something that came up on a recent thread discussing some of the mace type weapons hafted with sword hilts in India. In discussing many of these I think we are reminded of the thin line parallel between weapons and tools. All very best regards, Jim