Pickaxes of the Thuggee

spiral · 30th December 2007, 05:09 PM

Just found this picture Jim! This one looks like a claw though.

Spiral

THUGGEE CHIEF 1843
Chief of the Thugs, captured by Captain Vallancey in Arcot disguised as a traveller's escort Date: 1843

Jim McDougall · 30th December 2007, 06:24 PM

Thank you so much for responding Spiral!
Very good point on the length noted, and I wonder on the 5 pound weight as well. This seems pretty heavy, but I have surprised on the actual weight of many swords too. A rapier looks pretty light until you actually handle one!
Great picture you posted, I was looking everywhere to find any kind of an illustratiion showing the much discussed pickaxe, but couldnt find one. Well done!! and much appreciated.

I have been hoping that someone might have information on possible groupings of thuggee items, maybe the National Army Museum in London might have something. They've always been extremely helpful over the years in my constant questions on British swords.

I realize this topic will likely not bring much interest here, but I've always enjoyed going after esoteric topics, so thank you so much for joining me.

All very best regards,
Jim

Rick · 30th December 2007, 07:05 PM

You've captured my interest Jim .

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2007, 02:49 AM

Thank you so much Rick!!! I recall you always did have keen interest in Indian and Central Asian esoterica.

All the best
Jim

Rick · 31st December 2007, 03:56 AM

Thanks Jim !

I wonder how accurate the depictions of the weapons in that old engraving are ?
If you are digging a hole you don't want something with an acute point; a point yes, but acute as shown in the engraving ?!?!?

There's got to be a photo of one out there somewhere ....

Jim McDougall · 31st December 2007, 04:22 AM

I agree Rick, and I suspect that the illustration are the product of the artists imaging of a 'pickaxe' drawn from assumption rather than an actual example. While it is exciting to see a period illustration, it is unlikely from an actual example, which seem pretty elusive.
I would think that for digging, the point would be wide across for penetrating and moving the soil. It is suggested that these were much like the trenching axes used by British forces in WWI, so maybe if we can find an example of one of those we might have some idea.
Thanks again Rick for coming in on this!
We'll keep looking

All the best,
Jim

spiral · 31st December 2007, 09:35 AM

Yes Rick, Jim, I agree that with old ingravings accuracy varies so much, but the tulwar grip in that one looks a bit unusual! so artistic licence may play a part.Looks like a form of Zaghnal almost.

Heres the ww1 Brit. entrenching tool

I have the head from one, Id guess the head weighs about 24oz max., it is very effective for digging through roots & hard clay soil etc.

Spiral

30th December 2007, 05:09 PM	#1
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Just found this picture Jim! This one looks like a claw though. Spiral THUGGEE CHIEF 1843 Chief of the Thugs, captured by Captain Vallancey in Arcot disguised as a traveller's escort Date: 1843

30th December 2007, 06:24 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	Thank you so much for responding Spiral! Very good point on the length noted, and I wonder on the 5 pound weight as well. This seems pretty heavy, but I have surprised on the actual weight of many swords too. A rapier looks pretty light until you actually handle one! Great picture you posted, I was looking everywhere to find any kind of an illustratiion showing the much discussed pickaxe, but couldnt find one. Well done!! and much appreciated. I have been hoping that someone might have information on possible groupings of thuggee items, maybe the National Army Museum in London might have something. They've always been extremely helpful over the years in my constant questions on British swords. I realize this topic will likely not bring much interest here, but I've always enjoyed going after esoteric topics, so thank you so much for joining me. All very best regards, Jim

30th December 2007, 07:05 PM	#3
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	You've captured my interest Jim .

31st December 2007, 02:49 AM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	Thank you so much Rick!!! I recall you always did have keen interest in Indian and Central Asian esoterica. All the best Jim

31st December 2007, 03:56 AM	#5
Rick Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,336	Thanks Jim ! I wonder how accurate the depictions of the weapons in that old engraving are ? If you are digging a hole you don't want something with an acute point; a point yes, but acute as shown in the engraving ?!?!? There's got to be a photo of one out there somewhere ....

31st December 2007, 04:22 AM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,195	I agree Rick, and I suspect that the illustration are the product of the artists imaging of a 'pickaxe' drawn from assumption rather than an actual example. While it is exciting to see a period illustration, it is unlikely from an actual example, which seem pretty elusive. I would think that for digging, the point would be wide across for penetrating and moving the soil. It is suggested that these were much like the trenching axes used by British forces in WWI, so maybe if we can find an example of one of those we might have some idea. Thanks again Rick for coming in on this! We'll keep looking All the best, Jim

31st December 2007, 09:35 AM	#7
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	Yes Rick, Jim, I agree that with old ingravings accuracy varies so much, but the tulwar grip in that one looks a bit unusual! so artistic licence may play a part.Looks like a form of Zaghnal almost. Heres the ww1 Brit. entrenching tool I have the head from one, Id guess the head weighs about 24oz max., it is very effective for digging through roots & hard clay soil etc. Spiral