Keeping a keris for protection

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by semar

hello i think you can see about the pamor of the keris is made for protection
as an example Tambal Wengkon them say that this pamor protect the owners
and his familie but i believe when the isi is not strong enough nothing wil happen

sorry for my bad engels

Yes, I agree that tambal wengkon may not be strong enough sometimes, I have one teja kinurung and still could not be used to exorcise a haunted house. Instead, Iike I said earlier in my post, rojo gundolo would stand a better chance. In the end, the owner is still the determining factor

[pakana]

"sometimes the isi up to that point he can not come back "

What do you mean with that semar?You mean that there is also a possibility for the spirit to "leave" the keris for some reason?Because someone told me also that this could happen sometimes

george

[semar]

hello George i mean that the isi or spirit how you call it sometimes the strength so far gone is that now offering ore pray can help to get it back
because the keris have for years no offerings or other things to keep its power and i will go away in the long term and you have a kris with now power
you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

[pakana]

Hello semar,

So you think that a jin and isi are completely different?Please elaborate in that difference.Thanks.

george

[David]

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

[Pusaka]

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by Pusaka

Semar,

The thing is if you have a keris and you dont know its true name (mantra used to give it life) you cant repeat it.
In ancient times when keris was made the maker would give it a name and a mission, only the owner knows the name and mission of the keris, for most old keris this information is not known to the current owner.

Dear Pusaka,

I believe if you have an old keris and do not know the history of the keris, its not advisable to keep the keris at home. You will never know "who" is residing in the keris, I mean, the "isi".

In order to solve this problem, you will have to find a wiseman or a person very knowledgable in keris philosophy, and get him to communicate to the empu and the isi. How the keris should be treated, how its to be cleaned, how its supposed to be dressed, what kind of assistance can the isi give and everything there is to know. Only then you will be able to decide whether an old keris should be in your collection or otherwise

[PenangsangII]

Originally Posted by David

Djinn would probably not be considered the same as isi, especially in an Islamic culture. They are creatures of free will who go were they please and don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genie

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Generally speaking, when an empu forges a keris, he would perform certain ritual such as mutih fasting, patigeni, meditation etc, and recites special prayers to imbue special power into the keris, called the "isi". In my limited knowledge, the actions undertaken by the empu is actually calling unseen being (normally Djinn) to reside in the keris, and would help the keris owner depending on the reason why the keris was ordered by the owner in the first place, i.e. commerce, protection, war etc etc. Depending on the "ilmu" of the empu. and later on the owner, the power of the "isi" or Djinn may vary from one keris to another....

Just my 0.02 cents.

[David]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Thanks David for the url.......well you can offer something in return to the Djinn in order for them to serve you.... And of course it's against islamic teaching.

However, when we talk about keris which from general understanding, comes from vedic culture, mixed with local animism and Islam......the thing about Djinn that can become our servant cannot be discounted.

Well Penangsang, i didn't actually "discount" anything. What i wrote was that they "don't necessarily serve humankind in the same ways that the isi of a keris is expected to".
This is not to say that a Djinn could not get into a keris either, but i am not convinced that this particular type of spirit is the same that empus once embued into keris.
It should also be kept in mind that very,very few of the keris (if any) in most of our merger collections (yes, some of you lucky devils are exceptions) were actually made by empus. Most of even the good ones were probably made by highly skilled village smiths. Whether these were given the same type of spiritual attention as an empu made piece is highly debateable, but this doesn't mean that these keris do not hold energy from other sources such as the continued practice of holding and honoring the keris by it's owners passed down over generations.

[Pusaka]

Originally Posted by semar

you hef three type of power

one that the Empu call in so you can say the power of god ore creator
two the power will cal in the keris with a mantra but this kind of power will not stay for a longer time so you hef to repeat the ritual for keeping the power in to the keris
three some djin live in the keris ( this is not a nice thing to have in your keris ore house )

regarts Semar

I think there is a forth which is a current which flows through the blade. Like the mantra it wont last for long if its not renewed.

Is pamor type really a system of signposting the type of isi within the keris?

[pakana]

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

Yes, I agree that tambal wengkon may not be strong enough sometimes, I have one teja kinurung and still could not be used to exorcise a haunted house. Instead, Iike I said earlier in my post, rojo gundolo would stand a better chance. In the end, the owner is still the determining factor

What do you think about Kul Buntet pamor? Some say that it's a prevention from bad things happen to you (I think Tammens), some sort of protection maybe?

george