Pirate swords and weapons

Gavin Nugent · 18th December 2007, 08:05 AM

Great thread Jim, I love them there pirates....hence my handle, Freebooter.

As with the trademark thread, just not a lot of time this time of year but I will leave you all with these images of an Executioners axe from the Danish West indies.

I bid with fury on this many years ago but just didn't have the coin to win at the time.

The images of the gallows and the wheel on this axe are very sinister, the gallows I am sure we all know about, but for those who have not seen the spoked wheel before, don't confuse it with a makers mark.

This wheel was a horrible things. For further reading follow this link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel

This particular group of images is what pirates were on the receiving end of if they were ever caught.

katana · 18th December 2007, 02:59 PM

Hi Jim,
due to the close proximity of combatants on the decks of a ship, it is my understanding that basket hilted swords (European pirates and Privateers) were favoured, not only for the protection of the hand ( a crew with badly injured hands would have great difficulty in 'sailing ship') but also to strike your opponent,to stun ....before the coupe de gras. It seems that the cutlass blade was favoured for its weight (which was comparable to longer blades.) A basic functional 'chopper' suited to its use.
Apparantly the Barbary pirates favoured the Nimcha, however I cannot find any pictures or any reference to the dimensions of the blades.

A link to other pirates or those considered pirates....

http://www.national-army-museum.ac.u...ks/page2.shtml

Was hoping that the flags used by pirates might provide clues....nothing conclusive (a number of weapons shown) so far but this gives a little more 'background'

http://pvcbanners.co.uk/world-flags/...s/pirates.html

Regards David

Jim, interestingly the first flag has latin (?) similar to early makers marks

.

Norman McCormick · 19th December 2007, 10:19 PM

Hello,
Here's a blade I picked up a while ago and although probably dating from the latter half of the 18th Century, well after the pirate "golden age", I think it illustrates quite well the type of weapon most associated with buccaneers and pirates. The blade is 26 inches long pretty sharp and is most likely from a Government issue cutlass/hangar type weapon, the GR mark. If the makers mark on the tang rings a bell with anybody please let me know. Any more info or corrections, again, please let me know.
Regards,
Norman.

Jim McDougall · 19th December 2007, 11:39 PM

Freebooter, I figured that was behind your well chosen handle!!! I think we all have a certain curious affinity for these rascals! at least in the romanticized sense.
Your post with that fearsome looking axe surely adds some perspective to the darker side of the actual piracy phenomenon, and the markings are most intriguing as we have noted the appearance of similar marks on early executioners swords. Thanks very much for posting this, something not often seen in these discussions!

David, well said on the favor for well guarded hands on the close quarters melees on deck, and all manner of basketed, shell guarded edged weapons were chosen. There was little 'fencing' or 'styled' sword combat, typically more of a street fighting anything goes scrap, though many 'pirates' had been seamen in various navies.
As you note, the flags, while intriguing, offer only stylized hints of the weapons actually used and were used for emphasis symbolically. The letters do seem to represent first letters of some saying or phrase, probably well known to the men who used it, but unknown to us at this point. It does indeed fall in line with this practice on sword blade markings. Sets the mind to wondering what in the world it might have meant. It seems interesting that very similar defiance and rebelliousness is seen today in tattoos, biker symbolics etc. These guys were basically seagoing versions of todays rebellious subcultures.

The nimchas were of course used in degree by the Barbary pirates, which were actually confederations of groups along the littoral in North Africa from Morocco to Algiers and Tunis. These 'nimchas's (actually sa'if) were among the many forms of edged weapons probably used, and as you note, there was considerable variation in the blades but most were of full length, suggesting these might have been used more in shore assaults.

Norman,
Thank you for joining us here, and I've very much enjoyed the weapons you have been posting on the other threads! Great examples, as is this one, which is as you note, a heavy cutlass type blade from the 1790's to early 19th century. This would probably have been mounted with the regulation naval disc hilt (see "Boarders Away" by William Gilkerson for exact references but if I recall there is one nearly identical shown). I am not with most of my references presently so please bear with me, this is a fantastic book though! The GR and crown ordnance stamp was not used until the end of the 18th century, and was typically on these cutlass blades, particularly with government contractors. If memory serves, one of the contractors of this period was I think William Dawes, but would need to reconfirm. The reference would be in "Swords for Sea Service" May & Annis, again, not handy

Although as you note, the "Golden Age" had largely subsided by 1725, the scourge of the seas continued, and of course still does. These naval cutlasses certainly found use aboard various renegade vessels in those later times, but would be difficult to substantiate specific cases.

Thank you very much guys!!!
All very best regards,
Jim

Matt Splatt · 20th December 2007, 10:19 PM

Hello all, this is such a great subject I felt I had to throw in this little tidbit. I've had this for years and it used to have an old tag that read "Seized from Igbo pirate Niger delta, 1897". I'm very aware that this may just be a bit of fiction designed to sell a crusty old gun but I also think it might be representative of the modification of available arms to meet the requirements of pirating. The lock plate, stock and trigger look to be from a Brown Bess. The hammer is definatly not, it is rather crudely forged and bears the remnants of silver Koftgari. Perhaps it is Arab. The trigger guard and lanyard loop are rather roughly filed from aluminum. A short handy gun with a lanyard would be ideal for clambering from ship to ship with out your pistol going into the drink.

Jim McDougall · 20th December 2007, 11:35 PM

Hi Matt,
Thank you for adding this, another excellent contribution! Who wouldnt find such an intriguing label exciting! and it most probably is quite accurate. As previously noted, piracy was by no means confined to the colorfully imaged activities of those in the Caribbean and exotic isles, nor in the so called "Golden Age of Piracy" from c.1650 to c.1725. Piracy has existed perpetually with the movements of commerce and trade from long before that time, and still does. Certainly the profoundly trade occupied Niger delta had its share of such activity, and though 1897 sounds tremendously modern, early warfare still prevailed , and what might have been considered relatively ancient weapons would be put to good use in native hands.
I think your assessment is most likely quite accurate, though I'm not extremely familiar with guns, and without markings hard to say. It does look like the piece has been dramatically altered as you have described.
Nice addition to our topic Matt! thank you!
All the best,
Jim

spiral · 22nd December 2007, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Splatt

. The trigger guard and lanyard loop are rather roughly filed from aluminum. .

Personly I think that implys later modification than 1897. Aluminium was about the price of 24c gold at that time I understand. So if used would be with rather more finesse I think?

Spiral

Gavin Nugent · 22nd December 2007, 05:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spiral

Personly I think that implys later modification than 1897. Aluminium was about the price of 24c gold at that time I understand. So if used would be with rather more finesse I think?

Spiral

Interesting price comparison Spiral, I never knew.

As these rovers of the sea took what they did, not buy it, I would consider such a piece of aluminium to be period correct. It is well documented that pirates did destroy many fine pieces to equally share the weight of the booty , even coins where cut to pieces, with larger shares going to captains and others. This rough filed piece could well have been one of these pieces.

Gav

18th December 2007, 08:05 AM	#1
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	Great thread Jim, I love them there pirates....hence my handle, Freebooter. As with the trademark thread, just not a lot of time this time of year but I will leave you all with these images of an Executioners axe from the Danish West indies. I bid with fury on this many years ago but just didn't have the coin to win at the time. The images of the gallows and the wheel on this axe are very sinister, the gallows I am sure we all know about, but for those who have not seen the spoked wheel before, don't confuse it with a makers mark. This wheel was a horrible things. For further reading follow this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaking_wheel This particular group of images is what pirates were on the receiving end of if they were ever caught. Attached Images Last edited by freebooter; 18th December 2007 at 08:21 AM.

18th December 2007, 02:59 PM	#2
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi Jim, due to the close proximity of combatants on the decks of a ship, it is my understanding that basket hilted swords (European pirates and Privateers) were favoured, not only for the protection of the hand ( a crew with badly injured hands would have great difficulty in 'sailing ship') but also to strike your opponent,to stun ....before the coupe de gras. It seems that the cutlass blade was favoured for its weight (which was comparable to longer blades.) A basic functional 'chopper' suited to its use. Apparantly the Barbary pirates favoured the Nimcha, however I cannot find any pictures or any reference to the dimensions of the blades. A link to other pirates or those considered pirates.... http://www.national-army-museum.ac.u...ks/page2.shtml Was hoping that the flags used by pirates might provide clues....nothing conclusive (a number of weapons shown) so far but this gives a little more 'background' http://pvcbanners.co.uk/world-flags/...s/pirates.html Regards David Jim, interestingly the first flag has latin (?) similar to early makers marks . Attached Images Last edited by katana; 18th December 2007 at 03:32 PM.

19th December 2007, 10:19 PM	#3
Norman McCormick Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,613	Hello, Here's a blade I picked up a while ago and although probably dating from the latter half of the 18th Century, well after the pirate "golden age", I think it illustrates quite well the type of weapon most associated with buccaneers and pirates. The blade is 26 inches long pretty sharp and is most likely from a Government issue cutlass/hangar type weapon, the GR mark. If the makers mark on the tang rings a bell with anybody please let me know. Any more info or corrections, again, please let me know. Regards, Norman. Attached Images

20th December 2007, 10:19 PM	#5
Matt Splatt Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 31	Hello all, this is such a great subject I felt I had to throw in this little tidbit. I've had this for years and it used to have an old tag that read "Seized from Igbo pirate Niger delta, 1897". I'm very aware that this may just be a bit of fiction designed to sell a crusty old gun but I also think it might be representative of the modification of available arms to meet the requirements of pirating. The lock plate, stock and trigger look to be from a Brown Bess. The hammer is definatly not, it is rather crudely forged and bears the remnants of silver Koftgari. Perhaps it is Arab. The trigger guard and lanyard loop are rather roughly filed from aluminum. A short handy gun with a lanyard would be ideal for clambering from ship to ship with out your pistol going into the drink. Attached Images

19th December 2007, 11:39 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Freebooter, I figured that was behind your well chosen handle!!! I think we all have a certain curious affinity for these rascals! at least in the romanticized sense. Your post with that fearsome looking axe surely adds some perspective to the darker side of the actual piracy phenomenon, and the markings are most intriguing as we have noted the appearance of similar marks on early executioners swords. Thanks very much for posting this, something not often seen in these discussions! David, well said on the favor for well guarded hands on the close quarters melees on deck, and all manner of basketed, shell guarded edged weapons were chosen. There was little 'fencing' or 'styled' sword combat, typically more of a street fighting anything goes scrap, though many 'pirates' had been seamen in various navies. As you note, the flags, while intriguing, offer only stylized hints of the weapons actually used and were used for emphasis symbolically. The letters do seem to represent first letters of some saying or phrase, probably well known to the men who used it, but unknown to us at this point. It does indeed fall in line with this practice on sword blade markings. Sets the mind to wondering what in the world it might have meant. It seems interesting that very similar defiance and rebelliousness is seen today in tattoos, biker symbolics etc. These guys were basically seagoing versions of todays rebellious subcultures. The nimchas were of course used in degree by the Barbary pirates, which were actually confederations of groups along the littoral in North Africa from Morocco to Algiers and Tunis. These 'nimchas's (actually sa'if) were among the many forms of edged weapons probably used, and as you note, there was considerable variation in the blades but most were of full length, suggesting these might have been used more in shore assaults. Norman, Thank you for joining us here, and I've very much enjoyed the weapons you have been posting on the other threads! Great examples, as is this one, which is as you note, a heavy cutlass type blade from the 1790's to early 19th century. This would probably have been mounted with the regulation naval disc hilt (see "Boarders Away" by William Gilkerson for exact references but if I recall there is one nearly identical shown). I am not with most of my references presently so please bear with me, this is a fantastic book though! The GR and crown ordnance stamp was not used until the end of the 18th century, and was typically on these cutlass blades, particularly with government contractors. If memory serves, one of the contractors of this period was I think William Dawes, but would need to reconfirm. The reference would be in "Swords for Sea Service" May & Annis, again, not handy Although as you note, the "Golden Age" had largely subsided by 1725, the scourge of the seas continued, and of course still does. These naval cutlasses certainly found use aboard various renegade vessels in those later times, but would be difficult to substantiate specific cases. Thank you very much guys!!! All very best regards, Jim

20th December 2007, 11:35 PM	#6
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,193	Hi Matt, Thank you for adding this, another excellent contribution! Who wouldnt find such an intriguing label exciting! and it most probably is quite accurate. As previously noted, piracy was by no means confined to the colorfully imaged activities of those in the Caribbean and exotic isles, nor in the so called "Golden Age of Piracy" from c.1650 to c.1725. Piracy has existed perpetually with the movements of commerce and trade from long before that time, and still does. Certainly the profoundly trade occupied Niger delta had its share of such activity, and though 1897 sounds tremendously modern, early warfare still prevailed , and what might have been considered relatively ancient weapons would be put to good use in native hands. I think your assessment is most likely quite accurate, though I'm not extremely familiar with guns, and without markings hard to say. It does look like the piece has been dramatically altered as you have described. Nice addition to our topic Matt! thank you! All the best, Jim