Damascene and Pamor

Marcokeris · 15th December 2007, 05:05 PM

Beautiful!

A. G. Maisey · 15th December 2007, 10:00 PM

What method has been used to fix the pesi?

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 01:02 AM

Hi Alan, like clarify that if your "fix the pesi" meant how the ganja was secured onto the pesi?

The ganja is fitted over an enlarged oval portion at the base of the pesi, without the use of any metal wedges. No gaps are visible between the ganja and the pesi.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2007, 01:15 AM

Senior moment mate, senior moment. What I should have asked was "what method has been used to fix the gonjo to the pesi".

So, the base of the pesi was left larger, and that base was punched to expand it , giving a tight fit to the pesi. Is this correct? No adhesives anywhere? Check the gap between the gonjo and the blade base.

The garap in this blade is pretty good, and it does not seem at all similar in any way with the garap of blades that I have seen that definitely did come from Sumbawa.I could maybe be convinced it was Lombok---I'd need a bit of pushing, but maybe I'd wear Lombok. But Sumbawa? Naw---don't think so.

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 01:37 AM

Hi Alan,

Don't worry, I make that sort of slips all the time, and I've only just turned 30.

Yes, I'm quite positive there were no adhesives used. The white spot by the base of the pesi is actually the white of pamor. Nothing between the ganja and base of blade.

The collector in Lombok who sold this keris claimed that it was from Sumbawa, and the keris did come in a Bugis sheath with corresponding pistol-grip hilt. Are there Bugis settlements in Lombok? Or maybe a Lombok keris went over to Sumbawa?

BluErf · 16th December 2007, 01:44 AM

Lombok kerises are akin to Balinese kerises, I thought. In this case, the pesi looks absolutely Bugis - short and with a rounded end.

Also, there were a few other Bugis kerises attributed to Sumbawa that were collected in the same trip, one of which had the exact same prabots, but less refined and with 3 luk. That keris definitely is Bugis. Unfortunately, I don't have pictures of it handy.

All the 'Sumbawa' kerises from this collector were not washed with warangan, which was why I had no idea what the pamor was like, or that the black spots existed in the pamor, when the keris was purchased.

A. G. Maisey · 16th December 2007, 03:25 AM

Lombok keris from the old Balinese enclaves are like Bali keris. Lombok keris from the Javanese people there are like Javanese keris. Lombok keris from the Bugis people in Lombok are like Bugis keris.But some Lombok keris have a distinct Lombok personality, which tends to extremism.

Anybody can make any pesi look any way he wants to or needs to. You want to fit a Bugis hilt, you trim the pesi.

When were these keris collected?
pre 1939, or 1999---or later?

I've seen "rare and exotic" weaponry from isolated eastern islands that the seller supposedly swore on his mother's dying oath , had belonged to his great grandfather, but that according to what my experience told me, were straight out of Sumenep.

Put simply:- when something looks as good as this keris does, for me, it comes with an inbuilt question as to how many people could produce this sort of thing 100 years ago. Starting from that point it then goes under the microscope. Use a needle and see if you can dig some epoxy resin mixed with iron filings from between the blade base and the gonjo.

Put even more simply:- I doubt everything.

16th December 2007, 01:02 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Alan, like clarify that if your "fix the pesi" meant how the ganja was secured onto the pesi? The ganja is fitted over an enlarged oval portion at the base of the pesi, without the use of any metal wedges. No gaps are visible between the ganja and the pesi. Last edited by BluErf; 16th December 2007 at 01:39 AM. Reason: corrected 'what' to 'that'

15th December 2007, 05:05 PM	#1
Marcokeris Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Italy Posts: 928	Beautiful!

15th December 2007, 10:00 PM	#2
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	What method has been used to fix the pesi?

16th December 2007, 01:15 AM	#4
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Senior moment mate, senior moment. What I should have asked was "what method has been used to fix the gonjo to the pesi". So, the base of the pesi was left larger, and that base was punched to expand it , giving a tight fit to the pesi. Is this correct? No adhesives anywhere? Check the gap between the gonjo and the blade base. The garap in this blade is pretty good, and it does not seem at all similar in any way with the garap of blades that I have seen that definitely did come from Sumbawa.I could maybe be convinced it was Lombok---I'd need a bit of pushing, but maybe I'd wear Lombok. But Sumbawa? Naw---don't think so.

16th December 2007, 01:37 AM	#5
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Hi Alan, Don't worry, I make that sort of slips all the time, and I've only just turned 30. Yes, I'm quite positive there were no adhesives used. The white spot by the base of the pesi is actually the white of pamor. Nothing between the ganja and base of blade. The collector in Lombok who sold this keris claimed that it was from Sumbawa, and the keris did come in a Bugis sheath with corresponding pistol-grip hilt. Are there Bugis settlements in Lombok? Or maybe a Lombok keris went over to Sumbawa?

16th December 2007, 01:44 AM	#6
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Lombok kerises are akin to Balinese kerises, I thought. In this case, the pesi looks absolutely Bugis - short and with a rounded end. Also, there were a few other Bugis kerises attributed to Sumbawa that were collected in the same trip, one of which had the exact same prabots, but less refined and with 3 luk. That keris definitely is Bugis. Unfortunately, I don't have pictures of it handy. All the 'Sumbawa' kerises from this collector were not washed with warangan, which was why I had no idea what the pamor was like, or that the black spots existed in the pamor, when the keris was purchased.

16th December 2007, 03:25 AM	#7
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Lombok keris from the old Balinese enclaves are like Bali keris. Lombok keris from the Javanese people there are like Javanese keris. Lombok keris from the Bugis people in Lombok are like Bugis keris.But some Lombok keris have a distinct Lombok personality, which tends to extremism. Anybody can make any pesi look any way he wants to or needs to. You want to fit a Bugis hilt, you trim the pesi. When were these keris collected? pre 1939, or 1999---or later? I've seen "rare and exotic" weaponry from isolated eastern islands that the seller supposedly swore on his mother's dying oath , had belonged to his great grandfather, but that according to what my experience told me, were straight out of Sumenep. Put simply:- when something looks as good as this keris does, for me, it comes with an inbuilt question as to how many people could produce this sort of thing 100 years ago. Starting from that point it then goes under the microscope. Use a needle and see if you can dig some epoxy resin mixed with iron filings from between the blade base and the gonjo. Put even more simply:- I doubt everything.