keris blade for comment.

Bill · 17th March 2005, 05:59 PM

Looks very good Captain, as some of your past posts show questions about etching, tell us about your experiances to date.

capt.smash · 17th March 2005, 07:20 PM

HI guys, Henk yes i did it myself

i am currently looking at gold leaf/gilding and have found that gold leaf is quite cheep so i will be doing this very soon

.Im also looking into re-doing the fadeing an in some places worn away engraveing on the blade but this is a long term project[i already have the engraveing tools but it will require some further experimentation before hand].

Hi Bill i have been building up to this kind of project for some time and just as i was ready this blade fell into my lap as if it was meant to be

.My first task was the staining solution witch as i described in my thread on "warangan".Firstly i had to find a source of Arsenic witch as you know is a banned substance in most countries and after some searching and help from other members i found that warangan[the traditional mineral for staining keris] was probably the ore Realgar[Arsenic sulfide]easily sourced on ebay

then powdering it[ a lump of ore about an inch square part crystal part rock]and adding it to about 1 and a half liters of grapefruit juice.I tested this on an inferior trade blade that i got for this task and it worked well although i have found the grapefruit juice is only mildly acidic and only removes dirt and dosent etch the blade [ideal for a bali blade that has a polished surface] so for a more acidic solution i will use limes.I soaked the blade for 1 and a half days in my bathroom with ambient temprature of about 20deg C [slow but easily controllable].

The hardest part was prapareing/restoreing the blade.As you can see from the pics it was in bad shape with lots of corosion, rust ,scratches and pitting along the blade[the pamor not visable in a few plces], fortunately most of the pitting was only very shallow and i spent a day and a half of intermitant sanding with 6 grades of sandpaper [the type used in praparing car bodywork] starting with p100 to remove the surface material on both sides to a point where the pittingwas minimal and i could put a polish on the blade[aproximately quarter of a milimeter off both sides but im guessing there]this was the hardest part becuase i had to draw a line between a good surface and changeing the shape /lines of the blade witch i didnt want to do.After this i then gradualy went down in courseness of sandpaper p180,p320,p400,p800,p1500 till it was in a position to be easily polished.
Some of our more traditional keris lovers may want to look away now

I then did a quick pass on a rotary buffing wheel to polish the blade to a nice shine.And finaly gave the blade a few whipes with a rag soaked in sulfuric acid[car battery acid] to re-open the grain of the blade so the pamor could be set free.
In all i probaly removed about 3 quarters of a mill,s worth of material from the blade ,amazeing the difrence it has made and with no detremental afects on the strength of the blade.

Make what you will of it,any coments welcome

sorry about the grammar

rasdan · 18th March 2005, 02:27 AM

You're the man Capt., believe me you're the man. To me, that metal that makes your keris and the type of pamor is almost impossible to etch; except for the Javaneese specialist. For amature collector to etch a keris like that is SUPERB!! I've used natural realgar, and the result is ok on several kerisses only, that is keris with a kinda porous metal. With kerisses like yours, its almost impossible for me to etch. And yet, you've done it. Perhaps i should use purer realgar.

However, i believe most collector in SE Asia would not approve the sandpaper method. As for me, if it works...what the heck...

Can u please explain regarding opening the steel grain using sulphuric acid? What does it do to the grain structure?

capt.smash · 18th March 2005, 10:53 AM

Hi Rasdan thanks for your kind words

As for" opening the grain"[i must mention that all the sanding was done with strokes running parrallel to the length of the blade only]now after the whole sanding and polishing process if i looked down the blade i could not see the pamor ,the sanding causes the visable surface to blend /smear together so the pamor is barely visible[best way i can think of explaing it] so a quick whipe with battery acid gives it a slight etch just enough to make the pattern visible again.Do you know what i mean by sealed grain?
Also i forgot to mention that i only sanded the blade up to about 3 inches before the ganja[just before it starts to taper outwards] this was so i didnt remove any of the original engraveing.

Any information on technique the profesional restorer would have done on any of these stages would be most welcome

rasdan · 22nd March 2005, 02:22 AM

Thanks for the info Capt. I try the method in my next session of staining.

BSMStar · 27th March 2005, 05:34 PM

Hi Captain,

Nitric acid (HNO3) is commonly used to etch meteorites (it removes iron faster than nickel)... it may work better for you to "open" or "lift" the grain of the pamor. But of course, if it is not available then sulfuric will work a little more slowly. Be careful of the concentration you use (5% nitric in 95% isopropyl alcohol works, slowly add acids to other diluents and not the other way around - it can be a violent reaction) and the exposures time that you allow to the acid, you do not want to be too aggressive. It sounds like you are off to a great start!

Phosphoric acid makes a great rust remover in extreme cases.

tom hyle · 27th March 2005, 08:56 PM

This to me is the ultimate journey in collecting; when you get into the actual processes of the original culture, and can give the piece even more respect than to preserve it; to improve it; all congratulations to you, and thanks for sharing.

17th March 2005, 07:20 PM	#2
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	HI guys, Henk yes i did it myself i am currently looking at gold leaf/gilding and have found that gold leaf is quite cheep so i will be doing this very soon .Im also looking into re-doing the fadeing an in some places worn away engraveing on the blade but this is a long term project[i already have the engraveing tools but it will require some further experimentation before hand]. Hi Bill i have been building up to this kind of project for some time and just as i was ready this blade fell into my lap as if it was meant to be .My first task was the staining solution witch as i described in my thread on "warangan".Firstly i had to find a source of Arsenic witch as you know is a banned substance in most countries and after some searching and help from other members i found that warangan[the traditional mineral for staining keris] was probably the ore Realgar[Arsenic sulfide]easily sourced on ebay then powdering it[ a lump of ore about an inch square part crystal part rock]and adding it to about 1 and a half liters of grapefruit juice.I tested this on an inferior trade blade that i got for this task and it worked well although i have found the grapefruit juice is only mildly acidic and only removes dirt and dosent etch the blade [ideal for a bali blade that has a polished surface] so for a more acidic solution i will use limes.I soaked the blade for 1 and a half days in my bathroom with ambient temprature of about 20deg C [slow but easily controllable]. The hardest part was prapareing/restoreing the blade.As you can see from the pics it was in bad shape with lots of corosion, rust ,scratches and pitting along the blade[the pamor not visable in a few plces], fortunately most of the pitting was only very shallow and i spent a day and a half of intermitant sanding with 6 grades of sandpaper [the type used in praparing car bodywork] starting with p100 to remove the surface material on both sides to a point where the pittingwas minimal and i could put a polish on the blade[aproximately quarter of a milimeter off both sides but im guessing there]this was the hardest part becuase i had to draw a line between a good surface and changeing the shape /lines of the blade witch i didnt want to do.After this i then gradualy went down in courseness of sandpaper p180,p320,p400,p800,p1500 till it was in a position to be easily polished. Some of our more traditional keris lovers may want to look away now I then did a quick pass on a rotary buffing wheel to polish the blade to a nice shine.And finaly gave the blade a few whipes with a rag soaked in sulfuric acid[car battery acid] to re-open the grain of the blade so the pamor could be set free. In all i probaly removed about 3 quarters of a mill,s worth of material from the blade ,amazeing the difrence it has made and with no detremental afects on the strength of the blade. Make what you will of it,any coments welcome sorry about the grammar Attached Images Last edited by capt.smash; 17th March 2005 at 08:08 PM.

17th March 2005, 05:59 PM	#1
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Looks very good Captain, as some of your past posts show questions about etching, tell us about your experiances to date.

18th March 2005, 02:27 AM	#3
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	You're the man Capt., believe me you're the man. To me, that metal that makes your keris and the type of pamor is almost impossible to etch; except for the Javaneese specialist. For amature collector to etch a keris like that is SUPERB!! I've used natural realgar, and the result is ok on several kerisses only, that is keris with a kinda porous metal. With kerisses like yours, its almost impossible for me to etch. And yet, you've done it. Perhaps i should use purer realgar. However, i believe most collector in SE Asia would not approve the sandpaper method. As for me, if it works...what the heck... Can u please explain regarding opening the steel grain using sulphuric acid? What does it do to the grain structure?

18th March 2005, 10:53 AM	#4
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Hi Rasdan thanks for your kind words As for" opening the grain"[i must mention that all the sanding was done with strokes running parrallel to the length of the blade only]now after the whole sanding and polishing process if i looked down the blade i could not see the pamor ,the sanding causes the visable surface to blend /smear together so the pamor is barely visible[best way i can think of explaing it] so a quick whipe with battery acid gives it a slight etch just enough to make the pattern visible again.Do you know what i mean by sealed grain? Also i forgot to mention that i only sanded the blade up to about 3 inches before the ganja[just before it starts to taper outwards] this was so i didnt remove any of the original engraveing. Any information on technique the profesional restorer would have done on any of these stages would be most welcome

22nd March 2005, 02:22 AM	#5
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	Thanks for the info Capt. I try the method in my next session of staining.

27th March 2005, 05:34 PM	#6
BSMStar Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Kansas City, MO USA Posts: 312	Hi Captain, Nitric acid (HNO3) is commonly used to etch meteorites (it removes iron faster than nickel)... it may work better for you to "open" or "lift" the grain of the pamor. But of course, if it is not available then sulfuric will work a little more slowly. Be careful of the concentration you use (5% nitric in 95% isopropyl alcohol works, slowly add acids to other diluents and not the other way around - it can be a violent reaction) and the exposures time that you allow to the acid, you do not want to be too aggressive. It sounds like you are off to a great start! Phosphoric acid makes a great rust remover in extreme cases.

27th March 2005, 08:56 PM	#7
tom hyle Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Houston, TX, USA Posts: 1,254	This to me is the ultimate journey in collecting; when you get into the actual processes of the original culture, and can give the piece even more respect than to preserve it; to improve it; all congratulations to you, and thanks for sharing.