Indian or African? all metal lance.

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2007, 10:38 PM

I think Vandoo's note on the carrying rings is very well placed, especially in noting these are also present in African spears as well as Tibet. I will say that my first inclination in looking at the decorative bulbs on the spear were that they seem Indian. This is much in accordance with David's notes and the illustrations he posted.
I do agree however, that this work is pretty rough for the work from India, even the village work, which I think avoided such elaborate decoration.

I would submit that possibly this is African work, intended to replicate such weapons from India. There seems of course considerable influence in many African weapons that certainly derives from the Subcontinent, and is most likely associated in degree with the profound trade in key centers such as Zanzibar. The Red Sea trade of course also entered through Ethiopian centers which also carried weapons from Indian sources. It would not seem unlikely that an African smith seeking to emulate the much finer quality spears of India might produce such work. This is not to suggest that African smiths were necessarily less adept, as overall the weapons of Africa often reflect beautiful workmanship. However, like all skilled work, the range of quality varies greatly.

It seems also that the diamond geometric with central dots is something I've seen on African weapons.

All best regards,
Jim

Bill M · 10th December 2007, 01:37 PM

Another thread showing my Sang or Sangu. Some similarities.

http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=sang

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2007, 07:49 PM

Intesting Bill. Sort of what one would expect from India?

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2007, 09:05 PM

Bill, I was just about to retire for the night when I had a thought. Does your sang like thing really look Indo/Persian? I am not completely sure. The work reminds me of some Mauritanian metalwork. I can show metalwork from Africa that might make us change our minds but it will have to wait for now.

Bill M · 10th December 2007, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Bill, I was just about to retire for the night when I had a thought. Does your sang like thing really look Indo/Persian? I am not completely sure. The work reminds me of some Mauritanian metalwork. I can show metalwork from Africa that might make us change our minds but it will have to wait for now.

I think it is, but can't be sure. I'll go see if I can find it in my Pants.

Tim Simmons · 10th December 2007, 09:13 PM

Ha ha!!

Bill M · 10th December 2007, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

Ha ha!!

Well, the problem is there is no appendix in my Pants.

But I'll keep looking.

10th December 2007, 07:49 PM	#3
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Intesting Bill. Sort of what one would expect from India? Last edited by Tim Simmons; 10th December 2007 at 08:06 PM.

9th December 2007, 10:38 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,282	I think Vandoo's note on the carrying rings is very well placed, especially in noting these are also present in African spears as well as Tibet. I will say that my first inclination in looking at the decorative bulbs on the spear were that they seem Indian. This is much in accordance with David's notes and the illustrations he posted. I do agree however, that this work is pretty rough for the work from India, even the village work, which I think avoided such elaborate decoration. I would submit that possibly this is African work, intended to replicate such weapons from India. There seems of course considerable influence in many African weapons that certainly derives from the Subcontinent, and is most likely associated in degree with the profound trade in key centers such as Zanzibar. The Red Sea trade of course also entered through Ethiopian centers which also carried weapons from Indian sources. It would not seem unlikely that an African smith seeking to emulate the much finer quality spears of India might produce such work. This is not to suggest that African smiths were necessarily less adept, as overall the weapons of Africa often reflect beautiful workmanship. However, like all skilled work, the range of quality varies greatly. It seems also that the diamond geometric with central dots is something I've seen on African weapons. All best regards, Jim

10th December 2007, 01:37 PM	#2
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	Another thread showing my Sang or Sangu. Some similarities. http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showth...highlight=sang

10th December 2007, 09:05 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Bill, I was just about to retire for the night when I had a thought. Does your sang like thing really look Indo/Persian? I am not completely sure. The work reminds me of some Mauritanian metalwork. I can show metalwork from Africa that might make us change our minds but it will have to wait for now.

10th December 2007, 09:13 PM	#6
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,855	Ha ha!!