Tulwar Inscription

Jim McDougall · 8th December 2007, 04:28 AM

Thanks very much Olikara! Now that we know the characters are not from any of India's alphabets, we need to think of what kind of symbols these might be. As I noted, the circle and three dots may represent sun and the trimurti...but in alignment with what? as they seem strategically aligned with the 'symbols'.

All very best regards,
Jim

olikara · 8th December 2007, 07:05 AM

Jim,
Why I think they may be symbolic or may be just another armoury mark(Jens can help here) is because if you notice the inscriptions you only see the fish hook type character all over.

Either singly or one after another or reversed.

Yes the circular symbol with the 3 dots around should in all probability represent the 'Trimurthi' trinity. And then it would give ownership of the sword/blade to a Hindu rather than a Muslim.

Nidhi

Jens Nordlunde · 8th December 2007, 03:35 PM

Thank you for your confidence in my knowledge Olikara

.

Although I have a feeling that I have seen something like this before, I can’t help, and unfortunately I don’t remember where I have seen it, only that it is years ago. I think the blade should be turned 180° - like this.

It seems like a nice blade, and like Jim, I am looking forward to see the whole sword.

Jim McDougall · 8th December 2007, 03:58 PM

Well said Nidhi! That makes sense that it might be an arsenal marking as well. It seems to recall, though obviously not the same, the punched dot script from the Bikaneer armoury. With the trimurthi component established, and of course the Hindu association, possibly this would be a Rajput weapon. What do you think Jens?

Norman, could we see the rest of the sword?

Jens Nordlunde · 8th December 2007, 04:21 PM

Hi Jim,

From what we have seen of the blade, it looks nice, but I can’t from what we have seen, start guessing from where in India it is.

I can’t say that it is not an armoury mark, as I don’t know, but to me it is strange as the armoury marks normally consists of letters and numerals, or maybe sometimes of a mark, like, maybe, the katar (if this is an armoury mark) or some other mark. What bothers me is, that most of the armoury marks I have seen use numbers, so they must have had quite a good check on the weapons in the armoury, so why, all of a sudden, use a marking, which does not fit in any of the Indian languages that we know of?

Jens

spiral · 8th December 2007, 04:22 PM

It reminds me of script marks ive seen on some old Afghan weapons.

Spiral

Jim McDougall · 9th December 2007, 10:13 PM

Norman,
Has any of the discussion so far been of any interest?
Perhaps your participation could help us learn something from this weapon which has of course interested us.

I agree Jens, the armoury markings would typically be with numbers and as has been noted by Olikara, these characters do not correspond with Indian alphabets he is aware of.
The characters inverted as you have suggested make the circle and three dots reminiscent of a paw print ( much in mind after nature trails here in Arizona

.

Spiral, do you have any examples of this Afghan script? What type weapons does it occur on?

All best regards,
Jim

8th December 2007, 07:05 AM	#2
olikara Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: India Posts: 101	Fish Hook Jim, Why I think they may be symbolic or may be just another armoury mark(Jens can help here) is because if you notice the inscriptions you only see the fish hook type character all over. Either singly or one after another or reversed. Yes the circular symbol with the 3 dots around should in all probability represent the 'Trimurthi' trinity. And then it would give ownership of the sword/blade to a Hindu rather than a Muslim. Nidhi

8th December 2007, 03:35 PM	#3
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Thank you for your confidence in my knowledge Olikara. Although I have a feeling that I have seen something like this before, I can’t help, and unfortunately I don’t remember where I have seen it, only that it is years ago. I think the blade should be turned 180° - like this. It seems like a nice blade, and like Jim, I am looking forward to see the whole sword. Attached Images

8th December 2007, 04:28 AM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,197	Thanks very much Olikara! Now that we know the characters are not from any of India's alphabets, we need to think of what kind of symbols these might be. As I noted, the circle and three dots may represent sun and the trimurti...but in alignment with what? as they seem strategically aligned with the 'symbols'. All very best regards, Jim

8th December 2007, 03:58 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,197	Well said Nidhi! That makes sense that it might be an arsenal marking as well. It seems to recall, though obviously not the same, the punched dot script from the Bikaneer armoury. With the trimurthi component established, and of course the Hindu association, possibly this would be a Rajput weapon. What do you think Jens? Norman, could we see the rest of the sword?

8th December 2007, 04:21 PM	#5
Jens Nordlunde Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Europe Posts: 2,718	Hi Jim, From what we have seen of the blade, it looks nice, but I can’t from what we have seen, start guessing from where in India it is. I can’t say that it is not an armoury mark, as I don’t know, but to me it is strange as the armoury marks normally consists of letters and numerals, or maybe sometimes of a mark, like, maybe, the katar (if this is an armoury mark) or some other mark. What bothers me is, that most of the armoury marks I have seen use numbers, so they must have had quite a good check on the weapons in the armoury, so why, all of a sudden, use a marking, which does not fit in any of the Indian languages that we know of? Jens

8th December 2007, 04:22 PM	#6
spiral Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 1,712	It reminds me of script marks ive seen on some old Afghan weapons. Spiral

9th December 2007, 10:13 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,197	Norman, Has any of the discussion so far been of any interest? Perhaps your participation could help us learn something from this weapon which has of course interested us. I agree Jens, the armoury markings would typically be with numbers and as has been noted by Olikara, these characters do not correspond with Indian alphabets he is aware of. The characters inverted as you have suggested make the circle and three dots reminiscent of a paw print ( much in mind after nature trails here in Arizona . Spiral, do you have any examples of this Afghan script? What type weapons does it occur on? All best regards, Jim