Strange Sword with Khanda/Pattisa Blade- comments

Sikh_soldier · 7th December 2007, 12:23 AM

So not a Khanda then!!

Jim McDougall · 7th December 2007, 03:39 AM

I agree Lew, reproduction of early iron age 'antennae' type swords or the LaTene type.
Nothing to do with Khanda. We have been talking a lot on khandas lately though Sikh Soldier. I think the threads discussing them have developed some pretty good discussion on these.

Gavin Nugent · 7th December 2007, 05:57 AM

I aggree, after watching a documentry on the rise and fall of the Celtic tribes I too agree with Lew and Jim, many such examples were shown last night on the ABC television here in Brisbane.

regards

Gavin

Sikh_soldier · 7th December 2007, 02:32 PM

Oh thank god it was described as a "South Indian broadsword Khanda with a rare ritual Vajra handle"
I was thinking of putting in an offer,

Thanks Jim I will read up on that post, i obviously do not know nearly enough

Jim McDougall · 7th December 2007, 03:03 PM

Hi Sikh Soldier,
Knowledge is the most important weapon for any arms collector! This is why we are here, to learn together and share our discoveries, in both that and the weapons themselves which truly help us learn and understand.

I did not immediately recognize what that hilt was, but knew that it was certainly not a khanda. I suspected it was a very early hilt form, which was confirmed promptly by Lews post, and a quick check revealed very similar 'antennae' type hilts as described.

I'm glad you checked with us as you did and hope others will as well, as so many do before purchases or bids on weapons they are not familiar with. I cannot even imagine such a description captioning this weapon!

All very best regards,
Jim

katana · 7th December 2007, 08:27 PM

Hi,
I recently found this picture of a painting, (which I believe is 18th C and housed in a museum in New Delhi)

Notice the Khanda shaped blade...which seems to be 'crucifix' hilted (which seems to have a small langet similar to the African Kaskara) I thought this may be 'artistic licence' but, all the other swords shown are the same as each other, but not the same as the only Khanda blade.

Perhaps there were differently hilted Khanda (However, I am not suggesting the sword that started this thread is a Khanda but this does seem relevent to the thread)

Kind Regards David

Jim McDougall · 7th December 2007, 11:29 PM

The early 'khandas' in India depicted in the iconography indeed were simple hilts without guards typically. The hilt with developed knuckleguard evolved primarily with the influence of European swords, and began the advent of the familiar khanda form often termed 'Hindu basket hilt'. This is certainly not to see that the knuckleguard was not known in India prior to the European influence, but that its presence was quite limited in the regions where the khanda predominated.

Very good point however, the khanda of India did indeed have a spectrum of variation not only as it evolved, but as other influences and diffusion reflected in the variations. This example 'antennae' sword as suggested does appear to be a quite modern interpretation of these ancient iron age swords, and not associated with sword forms known in India. However, I do think it is interesting that the Indian dagger known as the 'chilanum' does seem to carry this 'anthromorphic' theme in degree. I have always considered the weaponry of India reflective in that it seems to carry weapon influences from subtle to considerable in degree, of not only other cultures, but ancient forms as well.

Nicely observed David!

All best regards,
Jim

7th December 2007, 12:23 AM	#1
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	strange sword So not a Khanda then!!

7th December 2007, 05:57 AM	#3
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	LaTene I aggree, after watching a documentry on the rise and fall of the Celtic tribes I too agree with Lew and Jim, many such examples were shown last night on the ABC television here in Brisbane. regards Gavin

7th December 2007, 02:32 PM	#4
Sikh_soldier Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 87	strange sword Oh thank god it was described as a "South Indian broadsword Khanda with a rare ritual Vajra handle" I was thinking of putting in an offer, Thanks Jim I will read up on that post, i obviously do not know nearly enough

7th December 2007, 08:27 PM	#6
katana Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kent Posts: 2,658	Hi, I recently found this picture of a painting, (which I believe is 18th C and housed in a museum in New Delhi) Notice the Khanda shaped blade...which seems to be 'crucifix' hilted (which seems to have a small langet similar to the African Kaskara) I thought this may be 'artistic licence' but, all the other swords shown are the same as each other, but not the same as the only Khanda blade. Perhaps there were differently hilted Khanda (However, I am not suggesting the sword that started this thread is a Khanda but this does seem relevent to the thread) Kind Regards David Attached Images

7th December 2007, 03:39 AM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	I agree Lew, reproduction of early iron age 'antennae' type swords or the LaTene type. Nothing to do with Khanda. We have been talking a lot on khandas lately though Sikh Soldier. I think the threads discussing them have developed some pretty good discussion on these.

7th December 2007, 03:03 PM	#5
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	Hi Sikh Soldier, Knowledge is the most important weapon for any arms collector! This is why we are here, to learn together and share our discoveries, in both that and the weapons themselves which truly help us learn and understand. I did not immediately recognize what that hilt was, but knew that it was certainly not a khanda. I suspected it was a very early hilt form, which was confirmed promptly by Lews post, and a quick check revealed very similar 'antennae' type hilts as described. I'm glad you checked with us as you did and hope others will as well, as so many do before purchases or bids on weapons they are not familiar with. I cannot even imagine such a description captioning this weapon! All very best regards, Jim

7th December 2007, 11:29 PM	#7
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,192	The early 'khandas' in India depicted in the iconography indeed were simple hilts without guards typically. The hilt with developed knuckleguard evolved primarily with the influence of European swords, and began the advent of the familiar khanda form often termed 'Hindu basket hilt'. This is certainly not to see that the knuckleguard was not known in India prior to the European influence, but that its presence was quite limited in the regions where the khanda predominated. Very good point however, the khanda of India did indeed have a spectrum of variation not only as it evolved, but as other influences and diffusion reflected in the variations. This example 'antennae' sword as suggested does appear to be a quite modern interpretation of these ancient iron age swords, and not associated with sword forms known in India. However, I do think it is interesting that the Indian dagger known as the 'chilanum' does seem to carry this 'anthromorphic' theme in degree. I have always considered the weaponry of India reflective in that it seems to carry weapon influences from subtle to considerable in degree, of not only other cultures, but ancient forms as well. Nicely observed David! All best regards, Jim