Nice old Ilocano knife

Marc · 16th March 2005, 11:54 PM

I don't see anything particularly Spanish on it, to be sincere. I would also have said Katipunan.
On the other hand, knives tend to lend themselves to a really great deal of variety (steak knives of the world, anyone?), so general shape only take me so far, and I have to say I'm relying on the symbol for the katipunan attribution. The shape is more European than Philippino, sure, but not particularly Spanish, at least as far as I can say.
Katipunan regalia tend to favour europeized shapes, though, at least regarding daggers. Could we have a specific typology, here? This is a bit out of my field, wish I could contribute more...

Battara · 17th March 2005, 12:11 AM

Part of the problem is that the Katipunan groups used whatever they could get their hands on, like, old European blades, locally made ones, etc. Different motifs were used and even types of hilts depending upon the time period, say I think fist hilts going back to the 1870s for example. Only on later Katipunan pieces did the triangle and face of the sun find usage since it became the official symbol of the PI government under Aguinaldo from 1898-1901.

After Baltimore, I may post pictures of the Katipunan pieces (or one of them) I have. The one I will post is Ilokano.

Ferguson · 17th March 2005, 12:40 AM

Doesn't the PI on the guard mean anything?

I tried to ask the seller about shipping costs to the US, and he was pretty rude. So I didn't bid.

I really like this piece.

Steve

Rick · 17th March 2005, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ferguson

Doesn't the PI on the guard mean anything?

I tried to ask the seller about shipping costs to the US, and he was pretty rude. So I didn't bid.

I really like this piece.

Steve

Philippine Islands ?

Ferguson · 17th March 2005, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rick

Philippine Islands ?

That's what I figured.

Steve

Ian · 17th March 2005, 02:08 AM

Rick:

I have to agree with Mark. I don't see much to indicate a Spanish origin. The finely milled brass at either end of the wooden handle strikes me as more of a French or Italian trait. The sheath also looks French or thereabouts (Britain, Germany). The inscribed design, as noted already, is very suggestive of Katipunan influence. If we use Battara's dating, the knife likely would have been inscribed with those symbols around 1900, but the knife itself could be older -- and I think it is. Perhaps mid- to late-19th C.

The Ilocano knife is pre WWII, I think.

Ian.

zelbone · 17th March 2005, 09:16 AM

The dagger most likely belonged to a Katipunan member. It may look European, but most likely was made in the Philippines in the European style. I've seen several Katipunan daggers that you would swear were made in Europe only to notice that the hilts were made of carabao horn, kamagong, or narra.

As for the bolo, it's a nice old example...you know it's old since it has a wooden scabbard. Pre-WWII?...definately.

17th March 2005, 12:11 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,272	Part of the problem is that the Katipunan groups used whatever they could get their hands on, like, old European blades, locally made ones, etc. Different motifs were used and even types of hilts depending upon the time period, say I think fist hilts going back to the 1870s for example. Only on later Katipunan pieces did the triangle and face of the sun find usage since it became the official symbol of the PI government under Aguinaldo from 1898-1901. After Baltimore, I may post pictures of the Katipunan pieces (or one of them) I have. The one I will post is Ilokano. Last edited by Battara; 17th March 2005 at 12:21 AM.

17th March 2005, 02:08 AM	#6
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,363	Interesting knife, Rick ... Rick: I have to agree with Mark. I don't see much to indicate a Spanish origin. The finely milled brass at either end of the wooden handle strikes me as more of a French or Italian trait. The sheath also looks French or thereabouts (Britain, Germany). The inscribed design, as noted already, is very suggestive of Katipunan influence. If we use Battara's dating, the knife likely would have been inscribed with those symbols around 1900, but the knife itself could be older -- and I think it is. Perhaps mid- to late-19th C. The Ilocano knife is pre WWII, I think. Ian.

16th March 2005, 11:54 PM	#1
Marc Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Madrid / Barcelona Posts: 256	I don't see anything particularly Spanish on it, to be sincere. I would also have said Katipunan. On the other hand, knives tend to lend themselves to a really great deal of variety (steak knives of the world, anyone?), so general shape only take me so far, and I have to say I'm relying on the symbol for the katipunan attribution. The shape is more European than Philippino, sure, but not particularly Spanish, at least as far as I can say. Katipunan regalia tend to favour europeized shapes, though, at least regarding daggers. Could we have a specific typology, here? This is a bit out of my field, wish I could contribute more...

17th March 2005, 12:40 AM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	Doesn't the PI on the guard mean anything? I tried to ask the seller about shipping costs to the US, and he was pretty rude. So I didn't bid. I really like this piece. Steve

17th March 2005, 09:16 AM	#7
zelbone Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: VISAYAS and MINDANAO Posts: 169	The dagger most likely belonged to a Katipunan member. It may look European, but most likely was made in the Philippines in the European style. I've seen several Katipunan daggers that you would swear were made in Europe only to notice that the hilts were made of carabao horn, kamagong, or narra. As for the bolo, it's a nice old example...you know it's old since it has a wooden scabbard. Pre-WWII?...definately.