Figural Dagger - Esmeralda?

[David]

Originally Posted by spiral

David heres another dagger you might find interesting?
Intresting & revealing to see the emotians this peace still raises for some... & where they are with it.
Interesting discusian chaps!

I do indeed find it interesting Spiral. Is a a "Satanic Dagger" once used in black rituals? Who knows? It is interesting though that another dagger with an identical hilt also turned up on the BladesForum thread so it seems this one had at least a limited run once. That might tell you something about it.
I wonder if Rodin's Gates of Hell are considered "Satanic Gates" by the same people who label these "Satanic Daggers"?
Spiral, i must say i am intrigued. Exactly what emotions do you think you see rising in these posts that are so revealing to you. Maybe you are looking at mirrors. I would love to learn your trick for reading between the lines.

[spiral]

Originally Posted by David

I do indeed find it interesting Spiral. Is a a "Satanic Dagger" once used in black rituals? Who knows? It is interesting though that another dagger with an identical hilt also turned up on the BladesForum thread so it seems this one had at least a limited run once. That might tell you something about it.
I wonder if Rodin's Gates of Hell are considered "Satanic Gates" by the same people who label these "Satanic Daggers"?
Spiral, i must say i am intrigued. Exactly what emotions do you think you see rising in these posts that are so revealing to you. Maybe you are looking at mirrors. I would love to learn your trick for reading between the lines.

I have no idea David about that dagger either, same as you.

When I originaly posted the esmerelda dagger my assumptions were based on a few examples I had seen in various threads. {Which the more examples one reads the more one spots errors generaly.} Luckily I still learn more about many things evry week & try not to hold on to unprooven knoweledge for to long.

I explained earlier in this thread where I am with this know.

Glad you found the linked knife interesting. Its looks "satanic" so I personaly would accept it bieng called that but so does much old art.

No mirrors or emotians in this one for me anymore David.

Just thought I could see some new bright angles mentioned & discused by some & some other comments that would have fitted better in the first thread, rather than this one

But its all eye of the beholder, I guess. Perheps I was mistaken. Only the writer of each post in this thread will know what this knife & its past threads hold for them.

Personaly I thought the neck of Esmerelda was made at that angle so it made her neck & shuolder a more comfterable place to lay ones thumb.

But that was just my reaction to it. Artistic licence, deeper meaning, all of the above? who knows? Intresting though.

Its a nice dagger I think.

Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

This sold for a good bit over £100 in spite of the seller calling it a paper knife. This surely establishes these as theme daggers much like the fantasy work of today.




Could make a nice toy to play with, if you like that sort of thing

[spiral]

Nice peace Tim, quite common though..

Thats one of the famous ones made by G Wostenholm in Sheffield, one of a serious of 6 i recall? {as I said earlier, my learning has moved on.}

You didnt buy it? I am speachless. Each to thier own I guess.

Heres another one....





From.

linky

Have a look at the price Tim. With a proper discription the seller would have done well.

But surely to my mind a dagger with a satanic theme should be called a "satanic" dagger with a Mohican theme should be called "Mohican"?

One with flowers all over it would be called "floral"?

No one in this thread has refered to them as a ritual knives, that thread was last year...


Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

Having at least one in the house might be rather fun.

[katana]

Hi,
I agree that sometimes 'things are what they are' and that others can create meaning to an object that has none. However, I do not assume this to be so for any object, I try to keep an 'opened mind'...'collect' possible facts first and then take an educated 'guess' from that info. The possible symbolism, could be relavent, this may indeed be a themed dagger in conception.....but later owners may have drawn their own conclusions and could have been used as a so called 'satanic dagger' ...

But there are 'anomalies' with this dagger's hilt and scabbard which could be just 'mistakes' or omissions....or could have some meaning.

I agree, (as I said before) that Esmeralda is looking 'lovingly' at her pet goat. Her stance, the goats positioning etc supports this.Yet her eyes are 'lifeless' or closed, the goat on the other hand has detail to its eyes
You could argue that the classical statues of Greece also have this 'look', but originally the eyes were painted and due to time the paint has eroded.

Sorry to 'labour' this point but....I cannot understand why the craftsman whom produced the scabbard put the tiles 'right way up' to the viewer but 'upside' down to the orientation of the spire A very strange mistake......if indeed this was a mistake.

Spiral, have you found any info on the blade?

Regards David

[spiral]

I agree Katana figural daggers may have been made for varied purposes or used as such later in thier life. Same as many knives.

Some clearly have Satanic themes, others may or may not & some clearly dont. I have seen no evidence of these bieng ritual knives but dont say its impossible.

Many organsations , groups & indivduals, like particular knives for particular purposes after all.

The blade style is typical of French figural knives of the period, some of which have "satanic" themes & some of which dont. It does appear to have been cut out of an older blade though. This is also common of those with Satanic themes that often used blades from Napoleans Mamuluke daggers from about 1805? I seem to recall? Whether its common in French figural knives without "satanic" themes I dont know. But I rather suspect many of these were made by the same workshops of sculpters & old blades were available & perhaps saved employing a cutler with a forge? They were just, cut ground, drilled etc.

But that is just my conjecture.

Indeed Tim, I did enjoy that one while it was in my company.

Intrestingly I noticed "non knife" people particularily women found it fascinating. But then I guess most of them were artists.

Spiral

[Tim Simmons]

You can keep the knife I will stick with the fantasy

[spiral]

Reality is more fun though Tim.

spiral

[Tim Simmons]

Do not try and kid me you have one at home.