Figural Dagger - Esmeralda?

Jim McDougall · 2nd December 2007, 05:53 PM

I recall this intriguing dagger from the last thread, and its as if this, the sequel gets better and better! I have always been fascinated by art, and the study of the many hidden meanings often discovered long after the esoteric purposes of the artists had been lost. While of course, the intended perspectives can only be speculated, it seems that as more evidence is discovered and plausibilty presented, the possibilities become compelling.

This is exactly the type of investigation and thinking we have been hoping to expand with the thread on early makers markings. That is to discover not only any consistancies in the markings and inscriptions used on the trade blades that often found thier way into the hilts of many cultures, but the intricate meanings and symbolism found in them.

As this dagger clearly shows, there was indeed pronounced symbolism that involved deeply religious sentiments and often conflicts involving the church. In the case of the symbolism on markings and inscriptions on blades, the emphasis intended is of course typically apotropaic and reflecting faith and strength, and the depth of the meanings imbued in these are often very deep if not even much more so than displayed in this dagger. Just as in the theme of the dagger, often the motif used on blades carried considerable allegory, as clearly seen in the talismanic blades of l7th through 19th century.

I apologize for the deviation in bringing up the other thread, but could not resist mentioning it in hopes that some of you might bring the clearly advanced investigative skills you have shown in this topic to the theme of the thread on blade markings

With that, I completely agree that this is a fascinating dagger, and though it would be difficult to consider as satanic, I think it is interesting to consider the allegory that seems present. I recall thinking in the original thread that the scabbard must have been intended to view with point upward, but as David has astutely observed, the tiles position disagrees. This brings us back to the objective of the 'upside down church'.

It seems that it is often suggested that the upside down cross is supposed to represent satanic symbolism, and that might be in some cases, but in actuality the inverted cross represents St.Peter. It seems that he felt himself unworthy of crucifixion in the same manner as Christ, so insisted on being upside down, as told in symbolic lore.

Obviously there is always more than one side to any story, and so it goes with investigating symbolism in art, weapons, material culture, literature!
But you guys have been doing fantastic at analysis of this dagger, and hope you keep it going! Its really like a great book ! I think Hugo would be impressed!!

Thanks very much everybody.

All very best regards,
Jim

Tim Simmons · 2nd December 2007, 05:56 PM

If we sentance Esmeralder to death we are cleaned of our sins. How many times have you nearly crashed the car because you given in to SIN?

kronckew · 2nd December 2007, 07:27 PM

wasn't esmerelda broken on the wheel and hung, her head would then be in such a position i'd guess?

2nd December 2007, 05:53 PM	#1
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	I recall this intriguing dagger from the last thread, and its as if this, the sequel gets better and better! I have always been fascinated by art, and the study of the many hidden meanings often discovered long after the esoteric purposes of the artists had been lost. While of course, the intended perspectives can only be speculated, it seems that as more evidence is discovered and plausibilty presented, the possibilities become compelling. This is exactly the type of investigation and thinking we have been hoping to expand with the thread on early makers markings. That is to discover not only any consistancies in the markings and inscriptions used on the trade blades that often found thier way into the hilts of many cultures, but the intricate meanings and symbolism found in them. As this dagger clearly shows, there was indeed pronounced symbolism that involved deeply religious sentiments and often conflicts involving the church. In the case of the symbolism on markings and inscriptions on blades, the emphasis intended is of course typically apotropaic and reflecting faith and strength, and the depth of the meanings imbued in these are often very deep if not even much more so than displayed in this dagger. Just as in the theme of the dagger, often the motif used on blades carried considerable allegory, as clearly seen in the talismanic blades of l7th through 19th century. I apologize for the deviation in bringing up the other thread, but could not resist mentioning it in hopes that some of you might bring the clearly advanced investigative skills you have shown in this topic to the theme of the thread on blade markings With that, I completely agree that this is a fascinating dagger, and though it would be difficult to consider as satanic, I think it is interesting to consider the allegory that seems present. I recall thinking in the original thread that the scabbard must have been intended to view with point upward, but as David has astutely observed, the tiles position disagrees. This brings us back to the objective of the 'upside down church'. It seems that it is often suggested that the upside down cross is supposed to represent satanic symbolism, and that might be in some cases, but in actuality the inverted cross represents St.Peter. It seems that he felt himself unworthy of crucifixion in the same manner as Christ, so insisted on being upside down, as told in symbolic lore. Obviously there is always more than one side to any story, and so it goes with investigating symbolism in art, weapons, material culture, literature! But you guys have been doing fantastic at analysis of this dagger, and hope you keep it going! Its really like a great book ! I think Hugo would be impressed!! Thanks very much everybody. All very best regards, Jim

2nd December 2007, 05:56 PM	#2
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	If we sentance Esmeralder to death we are cleaned of our sins. How many times have you nearly crashed the car because you given in to SIN?

2nd December 2007, 07:27 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	wasn't esmerelda broken on the wheel and hung, her head would then be in such a position i'd guess?