Philippine Bowie info requested

RobT · 26th November 2007, 11:55 PM

Hi Robert,
Here's a clear photo of the butt cap. It's too bad that the flash washed out the patina. In reality, the butt cap is a mellow gold color with a hint of verdigris. You know, in a way the hilt looks like a reinterpretation of a Balinese Bondolan keris hilt. If the piece is indeed Pampangan work its Indonesian roots might be showing.
Sincerely,
RobT

Battara · 27th November 2007, 01:44 AM

Here is an example of my tabak from Pampangas - though it is pre-1900. Note the similarities of the hilt to your own.

Robert · 27th November 2007, 05:25 AM

Rob,
Very nice work on the butt plate and over all nice addition to your collection.. Now if I have this right this piece is probable third quarter 20th century, Luzon and possible a late Pampangan piece?
Jose, as usual your tabak is a beautiful example and with the original scabbard I'm jealous!

Robert

Battara · 27th November 2007, 10:37 PM

I would agree with your summary Robert and thank you - I got it long ago with another piece that I sold (again long ago). Interesting enough for me to keep for while......

RobT · 28th November 2007, 01:55 AM

Hi All,
Battara, your butt cap and mine match very well so, even though the hilts (and blades) are shaped very differently, I think that a Luzon and Pampangan origin is an inescapable conclusion. Thanks very much for the id. Your piece is obviously older than mine but I think mine could just as likely be late 2nd quarter 20th century as 3rd quarter. My knife is in very good shape but that condition could be accounted for if it was a WW2 bringback. Are there some characteristics that you are looking at that place it solidly in the third quarter?
Sincerely,
RobT

Battara · 28th November 2007, 08:49 PM

For me, it is the freshness of the edges and especially the shape of the blade (along with patina). Pampangans seemed to use the blade shape that is on mine until after 1900. In fact, I think this type of blade shape displaced (?) this type of traditional blade in later decades.

RobT · 2nd December 2007, 02:33 AM

Hi Battara,
Thanks for the tip on blade shape transformation as a clue to age. One thing you and I agree on is my blade was made well after the turn of the 20th century. For my part, whether the date of manufacture was 3rd quarter or late 2nd quarter is too close to call so I am inclined to entertain both estimates as equally likely.
Sincerely,
RobT

26th November 2007, 11:55 PM	#1
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 550	Butt Cap Photo Hi Robert, Here's a clear photo of the butt cap. It's too bad that the flash washed out the patina. In reality, the butt cap is a mellow gold color with a hint of verdigris. You know, in a way the hilt looks like a reinterpretation of a Balinese Bondolan keris hilt. If the piece is indeed Pampangan work its Indonesian roots might be showing. Sincerely, RobT Attached Images

27th November 2007, 01:44 AM	#2
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Here is an example of my tabak from Pampangas - though it is pre-1900. Note the similarities of the hilt to your own. Attached Images

28th November 2007, 01:55 AM	#5
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 550	Butt Cap matches Hi All, Battara, your butt cap and mine match very well so, even though the hilts (and blades) are shaped very differently, I think that a Luzon and Pampangan origin is an inescapable conclusion. Thanks very much for the id. Your piece is obviously older than mine but I think mine could just as likely be late 2nd quarter 20th century as 3rd quarter. My knife is in very good shape but that condition could be accounted for if it was a WW2 bringback. Are there some characteristics that you are looking at that place it solidly in the third quarter? Sincerely, RobT

2nd December 2007, 02:33 AM	#7
RobT Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 550	Thanks for the tip Hi Battara, Thanks for the tip on blade shape transformation as a clue to age. One thing you and I agree on is my blade was made well after the turn of the 20th century. For my part, whether the date of manufacture was 3rd quarter or late 2nd quarter is too close to call so I am inclined to entertain both estimates as equally likely. Sincerely, RobT

27th November 2007, 05:25 AM	#3
Robert EAAF Staff Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Centerville, Kansas Posts: 2,196	Rob, Very nice work on the butt plate and over all nice addition to your collection.. Now if I have this right this piece is probable third quarter 20th century, Luzon and possible a late Pampangan piece? Jose, as usual your tabak is a beautiful example and with the original scabbard I'm jealous! Robert

27th November 2007, 10:37 PM	#4
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	I would agree with your summary Robert and thank you - I got it long ago with another piece that I sold (again long ago). Interesting enough for me to keep for while......

28th November 2007, 08:49 PM	#6
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	For me, it is the freshness of the edges and especially the shape of the blade (along with patina). Pampangans seemed to use the blade shape that is on mine until after 1900. In fact, I think this type of blade shape displaced (?) this type of traditional blade in later decades.