Figural Dagger - Esmeralda?

[katana]

Originally Posted by Bill Marsh

Hi David,

Your remarks in the earlier thread were very good IMHO.

Bill

Thanks Bill

Originally Posted by spiral

I Still find it interesting the its the only upside down scabbard Ive seen on these cast bronze knives. {yes Ive heard the arguments! But factualy its still the only one seen so far.} And so its still an upside down church though!
Spiral

Hi Jonathon,
as you know I could not find an 'upside down' scabbard. There is the possibility that this signifies 'Satanism but, I believe it is more likely symbolic to the 'interpretation' of Hugo's story. ( all the examples of Satanic daggers I have seen do not have an 'inverted' decorated scabbard either)
'The hunchback of Notre Dame' , at first seems to be about 'unrequited love' but the story is deeper than that. Many literary critics see this story as an attack on the church (not Christianity or Religion), members of the church (in his eyes) had become corrupt, greedy and lacked compassion for their congregation. He saw that the values of Christianity that were preached were not adhered to by the clergy. (a case of 'talking the talk' but not 'walking the walk')

Esmeralda was not Christian and was considered a heathen. Yet, her character and actions are more Christian than the clergy characters. The inverted 'Notre Dame' scabbard is in 'opposition' to Esmeralda (she is symbolic of good ...the 'church' ....bad) Had the scabbard had Christ or other religious icon.... I think it would be a different story.

However, as a footnote, assuming this dagger is mid 19 th C, it coincides with the popularity of the story....and would probably be widely accepted as 'non satanic' . As time went on and memory fades ...I could see this dagger being adopted as 'satanic'.

Either way its a very good piece.

Kind Regards David

I've just noticed (in one of Bill's photos) that the roof tiles on the spire are right way up...when the spire is upside down

[Bill M]

I am still intrigued by how her head is dramatically inclined to her left. This was obviously done when it was cast and not later damage. Any ideas about this symbolism?

Perhaps sinister? (as opposed to dexter)

[Tim Simmons]

I think it is just that way because of rather clumsy modeling just look at the hands, arms and so on.

[Henk]

Bill,

I think the inclining of the head is modelled with purpose. Maybe like Tim said a bit clumsy.
It is in my opinion typically a possure of a woman giving affection to the dog. Women can look with tenderness to a little child or dog in this way. But I can imagine if you turn your head like this you need treatment to get your muscles in place again.

[katana]

Hi Bill,
her head is indeed inclined to the sinister 'side' ..... i.e. the left.(the original meaning of the word from the Latin "sinistra" meaning 'left' hand side) It could be concluded that it is symbolic that Esmeralda 'leans towards evil'. However the goat (demonised by the early church ) is on the right side (dexter) ...the 'good' side.

Typically in Art, a subjects stance or positioning could be slightly exaggerated to convey the Artist's 'meaning' to his/hers completed piece.
The leaning of the head to one side, exposes this vulnerable area to attack (a shallow cut could easily sever the carotid artery with fatal results) If the 'subject' is in this position ....it generally signifies two things ..vulnerability or that the 'subject' is totally at ease (trusting, loving, friendly) with the 'situation' shown in the piece. As Esmeralda is looking directly at her pet goat whilst in this position I believe it shows her vulnerability(as per the story) and her 'love' for her loyal companion... the goat.

Although I suspect some will say it is an expression of her 'love' and 'devotion' for Satan, personified by the goat Had there not been a story that inspired the hilt of your dagger ...the last suggestion could indeed be more likely.

Regards David

PS I mentioned before that the tiles/shingles on the scabbard are opposite way up in relation to the 'spire' , inverted candle sticks etc. I think that this is strange. Why would everything else be upside down...except the tiles....could it be deliberate and significant

[Bill M]

David (Katana),

I think that the modeling is intentional. In symbolic and heraldic study where and how objects are displayed is significant. Whether a figure looks to his right or left is intentional and has meaning.

The position of the head is unnatural, uncomfortable and disturbing to view.

I hope that David (Nescesh) will again reply as he knows quite a bit about these subjects. But let me add a few things.

The goat in WICCA is a significant fertility symbol. Baphomet as well as Pan is a goat-foot god. That Baphomet ("Old Horny) looks satanic has more to do with a Christian interpretation than it has to do with WICCA. which does not intentionally use Christian symbols.

The goat probably has to do with pagan fertility as Esmeralda was know as a pagan, Gypsy seductress. She also danced and played the tambourine.

If we can attribute this dagger to "The Hunchback...." it could have more to do with Hugo's commentary on the Church, which was certainly an underlying commentary in his work.

I need to do some more study on this and invite input.

Baphomet (This is an image used by Eliphas Levi who was more involved in Ceremonial Magik) the WICCAN symbol is similar, but I can't find a traditional Wiccan version right now. Suffice to say Baphomet was not intended to be a Satanic Christian-derived symbol, but a Pagan fertility god)

Note position of hands and moons.

[Tim Simmons]

Remarkably similar to Hindu black and white, Shiva/Kali concepts. I do have to question what Victor Hugo has to do with modern Wicca. I have read that it stems for rather too rich and discontented late Victorian thrill seekers. I can not remember all the story but Esmeralda was the good person refusing the cardinals advances.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:A...and_Boline.JPG
The story
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esmeralda_(The_Hunchback_of_Notre_Dame)

I must find and the painting "Scape goat" to add to this goat symbolism.

http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/o.../scapegoat.asp

Esmeralda like the scape goat is a vehicle for the sins of rather naughty men, especially those hidden behind cloth.