Bugis keris

[Alam Shah]

Capt Smash's piece is "Balinese American". (Unique in its own class.)
At least its complete with a sheath and fittings.
In my opinion, Maduranese and Balinese pieces are much more varied than others.

[Bill]

Received the keris today & I'm quite happy with it. The holes have been helped along with a file. Likely done mid-20C with the dress as Dave has placed it. The dress is better than I expected, but nothing spectacular. There is conciderable loss to the blade & quite a bit of rust. Can this blade be South Sulawesi? Bought this blade because it struck me as simular craftsmanship of my "Moro" kris that I suspect is also from Sulawesi, can't say that I have changed my mind after putting them side by side. Quite surprised to find characters on the top of the ganga & specks of gold, coincidental with this current tread http://www.vikingsword.com/vb/showthread.php?t=432 . Saddly, there is also conciderable loss to this area of the ganga as well as quite a bit of dirt & rust. No animals, just characters, the work is so tiny, I'm amazed that it could even be done. As it is now, nothing is distinguishable, & a good cleaning will remove the last specks of gold as well as likely continue the loss of metal. Would be very interesting to find out if it is either Java or Bugis script.

[Alam Shah]

Well Bill, first and foremost, congrats. I wondered where this piece went.
Why not take a few shots and let us see this piece in its current condition.
The eBay pics does not tell much about the piece. Do a close-up on the script, please.
We can start commenting again from the top...

[Bill]

I'll take some pics tommorrow, in the sunlight. Have to stop buying swords & get a deceint camera though.

[rahman]

As a rank beginner, let me stir the pot a bit more

Bill -- you have what looks like a very sturdy blade, a sempana (9 lunk) with Nguku Bima. There may have been rust but not heavy corrosion, I think, that would have caused the two holes. They may have been made deliberately.

I say this quire confidently because I have a similar blade, only with heavier corrosion but still sturdy enough with no holes.

I think the ganja is not original to the blade, judging from the gap between it and the blade and the sudden flaring at the end.

I'm not sure if you have a central fuller (ada-ada) or is that a pamor line. If it's pamor, it would be called Nerjang Landep, a line that ran off track before reaching the tip. The esoterics will say it's a keris that brings a lot of misunderstanding and strife (see, it's already happening in this thread )

Again, those 2 holes may have a mystical function and I find it rare to find comboings with two holes, as most are really forging defects that cause a single crack or hole.

Regardless of its nationality I think you may have a keris with some mystical properties/functions.

I too was attracted to this keris when it was offered on e-bay -- until I say the combong. Not my cup of tea.
The sampir is quite good, I think with good grain. A good cleaning and a good waxing should bring this baby up.

All the best

[rahman]

As a rank beginner, let me stir the pot a bit more

Bill -- you have what looks like a very sturdy blade, a sempana (9 luk) with Nguku Bima. There may have been rust but not heavy corrosion, I think, that would have caused the two holes. They may have been made deliberately.

I say this quire confidently because I have a similar blade, only with heavier corrosion but still sturdy enough with no holes.

I think the ganja is not original to the blade, judging from the gap between it and the blade and the sudden flaring at the aring.

I'm not sure if you have a central fuller (ada-ada) or is that a pamor line. If it's pamor, it would be called Nerjang Landep, a line that runs off track before reaching the tip. The esoterics will say it's a keris that brings a lot of misunderstanding and strife (see, it's already happening in this thread )

Again, those 2 holes may have a mystical function and I find it rare to find comboings with two holes, as most are really forging defects that cause a single crack or hole.

Regardless of its nationality I think you may have a keris with some mystical properties/functions.

I too was attracted to this keris when it was offered on e-bay -- until I saw the combong. Not my cup of tea.

The sampir is quite good with good grain. A good cleaning and a good waxing should bring this baby up.

All the best

[rasdan]

There is a possibility that the holes are purposely made. Theres a javaneese dapur with both sogokan pierced through. I dont remember the name however. In the case of talismanic values, i believe the one mentioned in Van Duuren's book is "Combong". This one, IMHO is not combong. Combong happens when the lamination of a vertical pamor is not good enough. ie low heat. When it happens to a mlumah pamor, its pengat waja if im not mistaken. Combong is popular only to limited audience of malay collectors. Most Javaneese collecters regard this as a defect and of course reflects on the skill of the empu. Finally, im not sure about the nerjang landep, the pamor seems to be ok to me. If theres any mistake in my understandings, please correct me.

Regards,
Rasdan

[tom hyle]

The holes were 100% certainly made on purpose. There is and has been no question of that. The question is were they there original, or are they an after-market feature, and if an after-market feature (testimony that this is traditional, and the newer filing in them almost "locks" the case for this), were they made in response to a hole worn through in a groove; in order to render it into an artistic/integrated/planned shape (and would someone ever just "up and do" this if there weren't a hole worn thru?).

My info is that real coombong are very deliberately made in the original forging process, and I have very occassionally seen such holes in blades (perhaps combong is technically only one type of such hole). I've been told that gaps that are from flaws in blades get passed off as coombongs, which is not the same as actually being them (though see below). Likewise I have seen gaps etched through in the bottoms of fullers claimed as coombongs, which they are not. This is the first time I have seen them filed out to "go in" with the dapur of the blade (so far as I know, though I have seen other pierced blades where, thinking back now, it's certainly possible), though I have certainly considered the concept.

Heavy corrosion has occured such as could cause such a hole; look again at the deep etched grooves in the blade; fullers are thin in the bottom to start with, and BTW I didn't say anything before, but the edges of this blade have likely been re-ground at some time or they would look ragged after the etches that have produced that surface (could be wrong, but in the photo the etch looks deep and probably repeated)

Consider that usual kris are not made of a single layered billet that could accidentally have a gap running all the way through. They are made in 3 layers, each made individually, and the outer 2 bearing the pamor. So if one is made in one billet (unusual) and has a gap all the way through (unusual) might it not be appropriate to do other than assume that the co-incidence of these twe unusual things is accidental/incidental "mere coincidence"; might not the coincidence itself, and repeatedly seen, while not proving connection and intent, suggest them? In other words, does not the fact that the blade is made in a single fibrous mass that can form a split rather than the usual 3 layers, or if it is 3 layers that are pierced through in a way that would not logically occur from a "cold shut" welding flaw, but would have to be cut deliberately, suggest that the gap is deliberate in such cases? I know I'm being unclear here, but it's all I've got at the moment.....somewhat disorganized thoughts.....

As we've all been passed down the warning that horimono (carvings on Japanese blades) can be a way to conceal/cut off a flaw, so we recieve the warning that a hole presented as a coombong can be an accidental or worn flaw, but we should keep in mind that these possibilities do not in any way suggest that there is no valid "real thing" nor devalue it; this is a point that is far too often lost; I definitely know that horimono get an unwarranted bad name from this basically collector's tale; this exaggeration of a warning of a possibility into a certainty of constant trickery (and I'm sure I've mentioned before that constant thoughts and expectations of trickery seem to be integral to American culture; perhaps this is implied by the combination of republicanism and capitalism; heck, perhaps it's just the humans, but that can of worms is an unneccessary diversion....). It's like this; there could be a mugger or a crazy dog behind the dumpster, so have your eye open, but still you gotta walk down the street......(Or if you're like me you gotta face down that crazy dog and climb up in that box and see what someone thought was trash.... .....)

I think the ganga is worn loose from repeated washings, and the gaps (note they are different in different photos) come from it laying loosely.

Now, to put this all in perspective; that k(e)ris everyone thinks is so laughably awful? OK, the oversheath is obviously from another sheath and doesn't quite fit; otherwise? No idea what y'all are on about