A sociological and anthropological question

Yannis · 15th March 2005, 08:42 PM

Antonio
I like your questions. They have some levels of reading them. Here are my answers.

1. I was rather old when I turned my interest to the ethno edged weapons. First I was fascinate with the craftsmanship, then with the history, but always it was a child in me, wanted to play!

2. I started collecting almost any ethnographic blade I could buy. When I realised that I couldn’t get not even one piece from any culture, I turned to my country and neighbour countries. At least I don’t give a damn about mass produced items.

3. The idea of magic powers of blacksmiths is very old. In Greek mythology, Hephaestus, the lame god of fire and anvil, protector of the craftsmen, one of the Olympians, once he made a magic throne and he entrapped Hera. Also Hephaestus manufactured amazing weapons like the thunderbolts for Zeus, the shield of Athena, the heart-piercing arrows of Eros and the invincible armour of Achilles. He was very ugly, but because of his abilities he married the goddess of beauty, Aphrodite!

Of course she was unfaithful.

The snake is an ancient universal symbol. Look Hermes in the first picture and Hercules in the other. I stop here. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s faith.

I have no idea what “kris” means.

Antonio Cejunior · 16th March 2005, 02:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yannis

3. The idea of magic powers of blacksmiths is very old. In Greek mythology, Hephaestus, the lame god of fire and anvil, protector of the craftsmen, one of the Olympians, once he made a magic throne and he entrapped Hera. Also Hephaestus manufactured amazing weapons like the thunderbolts for Zeus, the shield of Athena, the heart-piercing arrows of Eros and the invincible armour of Achilles. He was very ugly, but because of his abilities he married the goddess of beauty, Aphrodite!

Of course she was unfaithful.

The snake is an ancient universal symbol. Look Hermes in the first picture and Hercules in the other. I stop here. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s faith.

I have no idea what “kris” means.

Thank you Yannis for your contribution. I fully agree that the serpent, naga, cobra, (it does not matter) has always been seen with both fear and awe.
In Christianity it embodies the temptation. Yet it also symbolizes medicine,
and is abundantly depicted in Egypt as in this fresco of Osiris

while a serpent rises from the pharaoh's forehead

Very interesting indeed.
I wish I could understand the word kris.
Thanks

MABAGANI · 16th March 2005, 03:17 AM

A. Do you feel that you are frowned upon by the non initiated sword average citizen, friend, family?

I've always been an oddball...amongst average citizens, friends and family, until I show that I've brought the artifacts into cultural and historical context through exhibits, educational conferences, ethnic presentations and martial arts, etc., guess it has to do with understanding.

B. How do you feel about the social acceptance of swords?

* frowned upon
* lack of interest
* fear or weariness?

I'd say there is combination of negativeness, lack of interest and fear again among the average non initiated citizen unless you can show some sort of educational benefit.

C. Therefore, do you think
that swords are placed in a socio-cultural ghetto?

In my experience, learning the art of the sword brings one to a higher level, intellectually and creatively speaking...like the kris/naga form which deals subconsciously with the realms of wisdom, but then again I'm an oddball...lol

Antonio Cejunior · 16th March 2005, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MABAGANI

B.
I'd say there is combination of negativeness, lack of interest and fear again among the average non initiated citizen unless you can show some sort of educational benefit.

C. Therefore, do you think
that swords are placed in a socio-cultural ghetto?

In my experience, learning the art of the sword brings one to a higher level, intellectually and creatively speaking...like the kris/naga form which deals subconsciously with the realms of wisdom, but then again I'm an oddball...lol

Thanks Mabagani,

Fear is one great weapon for ignorance. But then fear is part of the arsenal of the political correctedness of the world.

I do think that in my case, and thank you for sharing yours, I feel that it is most fortunate for me to live in Macau and in touch with the local Chinese community which is entirely different from Mainland China and from Hong Kong. Tolerance is so big that I have witnessed an American Hare-Krishna sect member walk in his safron robe and his almost entirely shaven head without anyone even staring.

Therefore, I have this benefit of not having to face a frown, but rather a curiosity for my interest in swords.

As you were referring to the naga, I was relating myself of the snake and the forbidden tree of Knowledge and what lies behind the real meaning of the old story.

Salamat poo, kaibigan

Bill · 16th March 2005, 03:20 AM

A. Wife hates them, has seen plenty of bolo wounds working the ER is southern Visayas, daughter slightly amused. B. All three. C. Yes

Montino Bourbon · 16th March 2005, 04:12 AM

I always knew that music would be a great factor in my life; and after the army, I ended up studying for twelve years full time with the greatest exponent of Indian music, Ustad Ali Akbar Khan. I play, teach, compose, and perform world music, with an emphasis on Indian classical and folk music and African drumming and singing.

I have pretty much all my life been thought of as 'different', to put it kindly; and I don't mind at all.

My family thinks of my passions as a little strange, but ''That's dad, and we like him that way; never a dull moment!" as one of my daughters says.

The views of the average citizen are not very important to me; I prefer the views of intelligent, well-educated, and tasteful people, which is why this forum interests me.

'Armi bianche', or 'white weapons' as blades and suchlike are called in Italy, have always interested me from the practical, artistic, and spiritual aspects.

I also enjoy going to 'Renaissance fairs', where everybody is armed and usually VERY polite, weapons are appreciated, and where music of the type that I play is respected and enjoyed. If that's a 'socio-cultural ghetto', so be it. I'd rather be there than at a tractor pull! (That's a uniquely American pastime involving large vehicles, lots of burning of gasoline, and not much fun for the likes of me.) Since I belong to a nation that at present is prosecuting a war, I hardly think that John Q Public has much to say if I choose to appreciate swords, especially while strongly condemning wholesale slaughter, which I find tasteless, costly, and ineffective in solving social problems. And, as I mentioned before, I'm a veteran of the U.S. regular army.

Whew! that was a good rant! Thank you for asking interesting questions.

Antonio Cejunior · 16th March 2005, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Montino Bourbon

I always knew that music would be a great factor in my life; and after the army, I ended up studying for twelve years full time with the greatest exponent of Indian music, Ustad Ali Akbar Khan. I play, teach, compose, and perform world music, with an emphasis on Indian classical and folk music and African drumming and singing.

I have pretty much all my life been thought of as 'different', to put it kindly; and I don't mind at all.

My family thinks of my passions as a little strange, but ''That's dad, and we like him that way; never a dull moment!" as one of my daughters says.

Greetings Montino,
My apologies, it seems I accidentally skipped your post. Thank you.
Well, probably I am very similar as considered a not-very-social person in the sense that I prefer to do the things I like, including work, though I do not read music, and I have always admired those who do.

My son plays djembe extremely well. He asked one for Christmas some three years ago, the year before he went to Portugal for University and started to play right after he unpacked the gift (we don't hang Christmas socks here)
He went out to play and was heard by a drums team who invited him to play with them in Hong Kong. Well, odd dad here was really proud

Quote:

The views of the average citizen are not very important to me; I prefer the views of intelligent, well-educated, and tasteful people, which is why this forum interests me.

'Armi bianche', or 'white weapons' as blades and suchlike are called in Italy, have always interested me from the practical, artistic, and spiritual aspects.

Yes, it is called armas brancas (plural) in Portuguese. Are the spiritual aspects you referring to connected with their history, their symbology or other reasons?

Quote:

I also enjoy going to 'Renaissance fairs', where everybody is armed and usually VERY polite, weapons are appreciated, and where music of the type that I play is respected and enjoyed. If that's a 'socio-cultural ghetto', so be it. I'd rather be there than at a tractor pull! (That's a uniquely American pastime involving large vehicles, lots of burning of gasoline, and not much fun for the likes of me.) Since I belong to a nation that at present is prosecuting a war, I hardly think that John Q Public has much to say if I choose to appreciate swords, especially while strongly condemning wholesale slaughter, which I find tasteless, costly, and ineffective in solving social problems. And, as I mentioned before, I'm a veteran of the U.S. regular army.

Whew! that was a good rant! Thank you for asking interesting questions.

Thank you for answering them. Culturally I must confess I wouldn't feel very good being "Ren dressed" but then I must acknowledge that the old world, and I am a mix of a westerner and an easterner living in the oldest western outpost in the Far East.
Glad to meet you. I'm a war veteran. 24 months in Angola, early 70's.
Let's cherish peace.

Best regards,
Antonio

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2005, 07:55 PM

Well said Wolviex, a bit less phyco babble and 21century medievalism.I have practised european fencing for over a decade so I will admit martial arts can leed some people to selfdiscipline, but you can get that fixing your car.Violence studied in a monks costume is still violence,there is no gentlemanly way of killing,it is the same result from a common bandit.I hope I do not upset people too much.Tim

Tim Simmons · 17th March 2005, 08:25 PM

Orez Perski. 2000. Museum Zamkowe W Malborku. ISBN 83-86206-31-4 In Polish and English very good book.Tim

wolviex · 17th March 2005, 08:46 PM

Jim - thank you so far,. I don't want to make a Polish topic from this Antonio's thread, and about my problems either. So I'll contact you via private message.

Best regards!

15th March 2005, 08:42 PM	#1
Yannis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Athens Greece Posts: 479	Antonio I like your questions. They have some levels of reading them. Here are my answers. 1. I was rather old when I turned my interest to the ethno edged weapons. First I was fascinate with the craftsmanship, then with the history, but always it was a child in me, wanted to play! 2. I started collecting almost any ethnographic blade I could buy. When I realised that I couldn’t get not even one piece from any culture, I turned to my country and neighbour countries. At least I don’t give a damn about mass produced items. 3. The idea of magic powers of blacksmiths is very old. In Greek mythology, Hephaestus, the lame god of fire and anvil, protector of the craftsmen, one of the Olympians, once he made a magic throne and he entrapped Hera. Also Hephaestus manufactured amazing weapons like the thunderbolts for Zeus, the shield of Athena, the heart-piercing arrows of Eros and the invincible armour of Achilles. He was very ugly, but because of his abilities he married the goddess of beauty, Aphrodite! Of course she was unfaithful. The snake is an ancient universal symbol. Look Hermes in the first picture and Hercules in the other. I stop here. I don’t want to hurt anyone’s faith. I have no idea what “kris” means. Attached Images Last edited by Yannis; 15th March 2005 at 09:16 PM.

16th March 2005, 04:12 AM	#6
Montino Bourbon Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Santa Barbara, California Posts: 301	Me, a wierdo? I always knew that music would be a great factor in my life; and after the army, I ended up studying for twelve years full time with the greatest exponent of Indian music, Ustad Ali Akbar Khan. I play, teach, compose, and perform world music, with an emphasis on Indian classical and folk music and African drumming and singing. I have pretty much all my life been thought of as 'different', to put it kindly; and I don't mind at all. My family thinks of my passions as a little strange, but ''That's dad, and we like him that way; never a dull moment!" as one of my daughters says. The views of the average citizen are not very important to me; I prefer the views of intelligent, well-educated, and tasteful people, which is why this forum interests me. 'Armi bianche', or 'white weapons' as blades and suchlike are called in Italy, have always interested me from the practical, artistic, and spiritual aspects. I also enjoy going to 'Renaissance fairs', where everybody is armed and usually VERY polite, weapons are appreciated, and where music of the type that I play is respected and enjoyed. If that's a 'socio-cultural ghetto', so be it. I'd rather be there than at a tractor pull! (That's a uniquely American pastime involving large vehicles, lots of burning of gasoline, and not much fun for the likes of me.) Since I belong to a nation that at present is prosecuting a war, I hardly think that John Q Public has much to say if I choose to appreciate swords, especially while strongly condemning wholesale slaughter, which I find tasteless, costly, and ineffective in solving social problems. And, as I mentioned before, I'm a veteran of the U.S. regular army. Whew! that was a good rant! Thank you for asking interesting questions.

16th March 2005, 03:17 AM	#3
MABAGANI Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 221	A. Do you feel that you are frowned upon by the non initiated sword average citizen, friend, family? I've always been an oddball...amongst average citizens, friends and family, until I show that I've brought the artifacts into cultural and historical context through exhibits, educational conferences, ethnic presentations and martial arts, etc., guess it has to do with understanding. B. How do you feel about the social acceptance of swords? * frowned upon * lack of interest * fear or weariness? I'd say there is combination of negativeness, lack of interest and fear again among the average non initiated citizen unless you can show some sort of educational benefit. C. Therefore, do you think that swords are placed in a socio-cultural ghetto? In my experience, learning the art of the sword brings one to a higher level, intellectually and creatively speaking...like the kris/naga form which deals subconsciously with the realms of wisdom, but then again I'm an oddball...lol

16th March 2005, 03:20 AM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	A. Wife hates them, has seen plenty of bolo wounds working the ER is southern Visayas, daughter slightly amused. B. All three. C. Yes

17th March 2005, 07:55 PM	#8
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	Well said Wolviex, a bit less phyco babble and 21century medievalism.I have practised european fencing for over a decade so I will admit martial arts can leed some people to selfdiscipline, but you can get that fixing your car.Violence studied in a monks costume is still violence,there is no gentlemanly way of killing,it is the same result from a common bandit.I hope I do not upset people too much.Tim

17th March 2005, 08:25 PM	#9
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,844	Orez Perski. 2000. Museum Zamkowe W Malborku. ISBN 83-86206-31-4 In Polish and English very good book.Tim

17th March 2005, 08:46 PM	#10
wolviex Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Poland, Krakow Posts: 418	Jim - thank you so far,. I don't want to make a Polish topic from this Antonio's thread, and about my problems either. So I'll contact you via private message. Best regards!