Greneng

A. G. Maisey · 18th November 2007, 12:13 PM

Aji Saka.
Bram, those two words are loaded.
Yes, we can extract "pillar of knowledge" from them, but we can extract other possibilities as well.
What we extract can depend upon what language the words were first used in. Did this legend originate when Old Javanese was in general use, or after Modern Javanese came into general usage?
We can extract "king" from "aji".
We can also extract "kaji" from "aji"---this is a known variation.
Saka?
Again the word can be interpreted in several ways.
However, "pillar of knowledge" is workable, and it could well have been intended in that way.
Possibly when it was first used the story-teller was playing with ideas that would be generated in the minds of his audience by a combination of sounds, and the supporting story. Pillar of knowledge could be used to generate the idea of knowledge coming from The Haj, by the unspoken reference to "kaji". The ideas of "king", and "pillar" could be interchangeable
There are a number of possibilities, my personal feeling is that this legend was born after Islamic penetration of Jawa and was perhaps used in propaganda. I don't like the parallel with Freemasonry much. I cannot see such a thing being a part of the supportive fabric, moreover, it is stretching belief just a little too far, but I have no doubt that the story was used as a teaching medium. You yourself know that these legends were not just for light amusement. They were not 15th century versions of TV soap operas.The story tellers in Javanese society were an informal----and perhaps sometimes a formal---mechanism of societal control.

The greneng flowing from imitation of royal preference?
Undoubtedly.
This would have come from the top, no doubt about that, but why?
And was it a personal royal preference, or by royal dictate?
Was it personalised to the ruler, or was it at the direction of the ruler, and in any case----why?

18th November 2007, 12:13 PM	#20
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Aji Saka. Bram, those two words are loaded. Yes, we can extract "pillar of knowledge" from them, but we can extract other possibilities as well. What we extract can depend upon what language the words were first used in. Did this legend originate when Old Javanese was in general use, or after Modern Javanese came into general usage? We can extract "king" from "aji". We can also extract "kaji" from "aji"---this is a known variation. Saka? Again the word can be interpreted in several ways. However, "pillar of knowledge" is workable, and it could well have been intended in that way. Possibly when it was first used the story-teller was playing with ideas that would be generated in the minds of his audience by a combination of sounds, and the supporting story. Pillar of knowledge could be used to generate the idea of knowledge coming from The Haj, by the unspoken reference to "kaji". The ideas of "king", and "pillar" could be interchangeable There are a number of possibilities, my personal feeling is that this legend was born after Islamic penetration of Jawa and was perhaps used in propaganda. I don't like the parallel with Freemasonry much. I cannot see such a thing being a part of the supportive fabric, moreover, it is stretching belief just a little too far, but I have no doubt that the story was used as a teaching medium. You yourself know that these legends were not just for light amusement. They were not 15th century versions of TV soap operas.The story tellers in Javanese society were an informal----and perhaps sometimes a formal---mechanism of societal control. The greneng flowing from imitation of royal preference? Undoubtedly. This would have come from the top, no doubt about that, but why? And was it a personal royal preference, or by royal dictate? Was it personalised to the ruler, or was it at the direction of the ruler, and in any case----why?