Scottish Dirk from Anne

David · 7th November 2007, 02:15 PM

I nice and interesting knife that you obviously have very good provenence on, but is it reall a "dirk". It certainly doesn't follow the form i am familar with or what is shown in the evolution of the dirk on this website:
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_dirks.html

Bill M · 7th November 2007, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

I nice and interesting knife that you obviously have very good provenence on, but is it reall a "dirk". It certainly doesn't follow the form i am familar with or what is shown in the evolution of the dirk on this website:
http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_dirks.html

Good "point" as Battera

would say.

You are certainly correct, the dirks do have a different blade. I looked at your link and can see that, so should we just call it a "dagger?" Or something else?

Ferguson · 7th November 2007, 02:59 PM

A knife maybe? Perchance a bolo, or a sundang?

A knife by any other name would look as sweet.

Either way, a sweet piece!

steve

Jim McDougall · 7th November 2007, 03:11 PM

Very handsome Scottish knife, especially in that it is nicely marked.....having the maker established in that period a definite plus!
These small knives that were often carried in the stocking were typically called skean dubh ,which loosely translated from Gaelic meant dark or black knife, not that they were necessarily black. The dirks were of course much larger and often crafted from baskethilt blades.
Nicely done Anne!! You're a lucky guy Bill!!! on both counts

All the best,
Jim

David · 7th November 2007, 03:34 PM

Jim, you might be right, sgian dubh might be the right name here, but without demensions i was a little uncertain about the actual size of this knife. How big is it Bill? (the knife i mean

)

kronckew · 7th November 2007, 04:03 PM

bill, looks familiar somehow

still looks nice.

for the rest of y'all for reference, here's one i posted earlier that appears to be made out of the tip of a sword blade whose age/provenance i do not know, also with knobbly stag, and it's little 5in bladed great grandson skian dubh with a guard.

David · 7th November 2007, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kronckew

bill, looks familiar somehow

still looks nice.

for the rest of y'all for reference, here's one i posted earlier that appears to be made out of the tip of a sword blade whose age/provenance i do not know, also with knobbly stag, and it's little 5in bladed great grandson skian dubh with a guard.

When you say 5" are you referring to overall or just the blade.A 5" blade would seem a bit excessive for a sgian dubh.

rand · 7th November 2007, 04:06 PM

Hey Bill,

The Scottish arms have always been a favorite of mine...... Your birthday present dagger has a great mark of "Mclay" stamped on the blade that adds so much character and history to a knife. The off-set handle was a good point to mention as it does improve the comfort of carrying in different manners. The color of the stag horn handle is also appealing as its showing its color change with time. Enjoy your new dagger.....

What is "shear steel"?

rand

asomotif · 7th November 2007, 04:53 PM

Bill,

I will surely show this thread to my wife, X-mas comming in sight real soon

As for the use of the knife. The shape looks nice for cutting small vegetables, but it probably needs some sharpening which I am not in favour of.

Bill M · 9th November 2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David

Jim, you might be right, sgian dubh might be the right name here, but without dimensions i was a little uncertain about the actual size of this knife. How big is it Bill? (the knife i mean

)

Yark, yark! (dry laugh, don't try to translate from some obscure language)

The knife is about 7" long

Thanks for all the great replies. I have learned a lot from all, but Particularly from Alan and Spiral.

Jim McDougall · 9th November 2007, 04:21 PM

Hi Jeff!!
Thats amazing! I had never heard of that particular reference to Scythians and Scots, and perhaps Kronckew's comment on the Celtic association may concur with that intriguing anthropology. I cant believe the amazing references you seem to have command of!!! Outstanding!

I was of course kidding with the shashka note, and absolutely delighted with this very fascinating information you have brought in! Hey, maybe this Drambuie stuff really works!!

.....but now you've really triggered it, and I'll be the one not sleeping

I thought I had finished the old MacDhubghaill geneology but looks like theres a whole new dimension.

Thanks so much Jeff!

Bill,
I've learned a lot on this thread too, especially with Jeff's note on an aside from the knife itself and Kronkews addition, and as you note with Spirals great note on sheared steel. Alan's comments are as always extremely well placed and insightful, and I especially appreciate his attention to my questions on dudgeon and boxwood. In all, great input from everyone on the thread, and again, I'm really glad that you shared this interesting example to initiate this thread!! Thank you very much.

All best regards,
Jim

7th November 2007, 04:06 PM	#8
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Great little dagger.... Hey Bill, The Scottish arms have always been a favorite of mine...... Your birthday present dagger has a great mark of "Mclay" stamped on the blade that adds so much character and history to a knife. The off-set handle was a good point to mention as it does improve the comfort of carrying in different manners. The color of the stag horn handle is also appealing as its showing its color change with time. Enjoy your new dagger..... What is "shear steel"? rand

7th November 2007, 02:15 PM	#1
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	I nice and interesting knife that you obviously have very good provenence on, but is it reall a "dirk". It certainly doesn't follow the form i am familar with or what is shown in the evolution of the dirk on this website: http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spot_dirks.html

7th November 2007, 02:59 PM	#3
Ferguson Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kernersville, NC, USA Posts: 793	A knife maybe? Perchance a bolo, or a sundang? A knife by any other name would look as sweet. Either way, a sweet piece! steve

7th November 2007, 03:11 PM	#4
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Very handsome Scottish knife, especially in that it is nicely marked.....having the maker established in that period a definite plus! These small knives that were often carried in the stocking were typically called skean dubh ,which loosely translated from Gaelic meant dark or black knife, not that they were necessarily black. The dirks were of course much larger and often crafted from baskethilt blades. Nicely done Anne!! You're a lucky guy Bill!!! on both counts All the best, Jim

7th November 2007, 03:34 PM	#5
David Keris forum moderator Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Nova Scotia Posts: 7,218	Jim, you might be right, sgian dubh might be the right name here, but without demensions i was a little uncertain about the actual size of this knife. How big is it Bill? (the knife i mean )

7th November 2007, 04:03 PM	#6
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	bill, looks familiar somehow still looks nice. for the rest of y'all for reference, here's one i posted earlier that appears to be made out of the tip of a sword blade whose age/provenance i do not know, also with knobbly stag, and it's little 5in bladed great grandson skian dubh with a guard.

7th November 2007, 04:53 PM	#9
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	Bill, I will surely show this thread to my wife, X-mas comming in sight real soon As for the use of the knife. The shape looks nice for cutting small vegetables, but it probably needs some sharpening which I am not in favour of.

9th November 2007, 04:21 PM	#11
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,281	Hi Jeff!! Thats amazing! I had never heard of that particular reference to Scythians and Scots, and perhaps Kronckew's comment on the Celtic association may concur with that intriguing anthropology. I cant believe the amazing references you seem to have command of!!! Outstanding! I was of course kidding with the shashka note, and absolutely delighted with this very fascinating information you have brought in! Hey, maybe this Drambuie stuff really works!! .....but now you've really triggered it, and I'll be the one not sleeping I thought I had finished the old MacDhubghaill geneology but looks like theres a whole new dimension. Thanks so much Jeff! Bill, I've learned a lot on this thread too, especially with Jeff's note on an aside from the knife itself and Kronkews addition, and as you note with Spirals great note on sheared steel. Alan's comments are as always extremely well placed and insightful, and I especially appreciate his attention to my questions on dudgeon and boxwood. In all, great input from everyone on the thread, and again, I'm really glad that you shared this interesting example to initiate this thread!! Thank you very much. All best regards, Jim