keris blade for comment.

capt.smash · 13th March 2005, 10:25 PM

Thanks Henk for looking that up thats a great help and interesting

Hi Empu Kumis

thanks for your comments this blade is highly polished and you cant feel the pamor if you run your finger over it but does have random pitting and wear from past corrosion im very sure its older than the 1970,s .

Also after more cleaning i have discovred that there is a wafer thin gold shim between the blade and the ganja its only visable in a couple of places and is incredibly thin my camera wont zoom in close enough to catch it properly... strange but interesting

empu kumis · 14th March 2005, 09:01 PM

Hello Capt. Smash,

its not only the corrosion but also the incomplete greneng and the blade is to narrow. It could be reshaped. This has been done many times to rise the prices in Bali and even more in Jawa.

The blade itself is older but reshaped. Up to now there has been almost no research about the age of Balinese kerisses. If somebody telling you the age of a Balinese keris its always pure speculation. Even to tell about where it comes from (Southbali or Northbali) is difficult and in Bali almost everythings is forgotten.

capt.smash · 17th March 2005, 01:10 PM

After some TLC and a visit to doctor arsenic....nice pamor in my opinion

Henk · 17th March 2005, 05:53 PM

Did you that by yourself??? The result is great !!! Next step is restoring the gold part and if possible a good dress for this fellow.

Bill · 17th March 2005, 05:59 PM

Looks very good Captain, as some of your past posts show questions about etching, tell us about your experiances to date.

capt.smash · 17th March 2005, 07:20 PM

HI guys, Henk yes i did it myself

i am currently looking at gold leaf/gilding and have found that gold leaf is quite cheep so i will be doing this very soon

.Im also looking into re-doing the fadeing an in some places worn away engraveing on the blade but this is a long term project[i already have the engraveing tools but it will require some further experimentation before hand].

Hi Bill i have been building up to this kind of project for some time and just as i was ready this blade fell into my lap as if it was meant to be

.My first task was the staining solution witch as i described in my thread on "warangan".Firstly i had to find a source of Arsenic witch as you know is a banned substance in most countries and after some searching and help from other members i found that warangan[the traditional mineral for staining keris] was probably the ore Realgar[Arsenic sulfide]easily sourced on ebay

then powdering it[ a lump of ore about an inch square part crystal part rock]and adding it to about 1 and a half liters of grapefruit juice.I tested this on an inferior trade blade that i got for this task and it worked well although i have found the grapefruit juice is only mildly acidic and only removes dirt and dosent etch the blade [ideal for a bali blade that has a polished surface] so for a more acidic solution i will use limes.I soaked the blade for 1 and a half days in my bathroom with ambient temprature of about 20deg C [slow but easily controllable].

The hardest part was prapareing/restoreing the blade.As you can see from the pics it was in bad shape with lots of corosion, rust ,scratches and pitting along the blade[the pamor not visable in a few plces], fortunately most of the pitting was only very shallow and i spent a day and a half of intermitant sanding with 6 grades of sandpaper [the type used in praparing car bodywork] starting with p100 to remove the surface material on both sides to a point where the pittingwas minimal and i could put a polish on the blade[aproximately quarter of a milimeter off both sides but im guessing there]this was the hardest part becuase i had to draw a line between a good surface and changeing the shape /lines of the blade witch i didnt want to do.After this i then gradualy went down in courseness of sandpaper p180,p320,p400,p800,p1500 till it was in a position to be easily polished.
Some of our more traditional keris lovers may want to look away now

I then did a quick pass on a rotary buffing wheel to polish the blade to a nice shine.And finaly gave the blade a few whipes with a rag soaked in sulfuric acid[car battery acid] to re-open the grain of the blade so the pamor could be set free.
In all i probaly removed about 3 quarters of a mill,s worth of material from the blade ,amazeing the difrence it has made and with no detremental afects on the strength of the blade.

Make what you will of it,any coments welcome

sorry about the grammar

rasdan · 18th March 2005, 02:27 AM

You're the man Capt., believe me you're the man. To me, that metal that makes your keris and the type of pamor is almost impossible to etch; except for the Javaneese specialist. For amature collector to etch a keris like that is SUPERB!! I've used natural realgar, and the result is ok on several kerisses only, that is keris with a kinda porous metal. With kerisses like yours, its almost impossible for me to etch. And yet, you've done it. Perhaps i should use purer realgar.

However, i believe most collector in SE Asia would not approve the sandpaper method. As for me, if it works...what the heck...

Can u please explain regarding opening the steel grain using sulphuric acid? What does it do to the grain structure?

13th March 2005, 10:25 PM	#1
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	Thanks Henk for looking that up thats a great help and interesting Hi Empu Kumis thanks for your comments this blade is highly polished and you cant feel the pamor if you run your finger over it but does have random pitting and wear from past corrosion im very sure its older than the 1970,s . Also after more cleaning i have discovred that there is a wafer thin gold shim between the blade and the ganja its only visable in a couple of places and is incredibly thin my camera wont zoom in close enough to catch it properly... strange but interesting Last edited by capt.smash; 14th March 2005 at 12:06 AM.

14th March 2005, 09:01 PM	#2
empu kumis Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Germany Posts: 17	Hello Capt. Smash, its not only the corrosion but also the incomplete greneng and the blade is to narrow. It could be reshaped. This has been done many times to rise the prices in Bali and even more in Jawa. The blade itself is older but reshaped. Up to now there has been almost no research about the age of Balinese kerisses. If somebody telling you the age of a Balinese keris its always pure speculation. Even to tell about where it comes from (Southbali or Northbali) is difficult and in Bali almost everythings is forgotten. Last edited by empu kumis; 14th March 2005 at 09:12 PM.

17th March 2005, 01:10 PM	#3
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	After some TLC and a visit to doctor arsenic....nice pamor in my opinion Attached Images Last edited by capt.smash; 17th March 2005 at 03:33 PM.

17th March 2005, 07:20 PM	#6
capt.smash Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Devon ,England Posts: 80	HI guys, Henk yes i did it myself i am currently looking at gold leaf/gilding and have found that gold leaf is quite cheep so i will be doing this very soon .Im also looking into re-doing the fadeing an in some places worn away engraveing on the blade but this is a long term project[i already have the engraveing tools but it will require some further experimentation before hand]. Hi Bill i have been building up to this kind of project for some time and just as i was ready this blade fell into my lap as if it was meant to be .My first task was the staining solution witch as i described in my thread on "warangan".Firstly i had to find a source of Arsenic witch as you know is a banned substance in most countries and after some searching and help from other members i found that warangan[the traditional mineral for staining keris] was probably the ore Realgar[Arsenic sulfide]easily sourced on ebay then powdering it[ a lump of ore about an inch square part crystal part rock]and adding it to about 1 and a half liters of grapefruit juice.I tested this on an inferior trade blade that i got for this task and it worked well although i have found the grapefruit juice is only mildly acidic and only removes dirt and dosent etch the blade [ideal for a bali blade that has a polished surface] so for a more acidic solution i will use limes.I soaked the blade for 1 and a half days in my bathroom with ambient temprature of about 20deg C [slow but easily controllable]. The hardest part was prapareing/restoreing the blade.As you can see from the pics it was in bad shape with lots of corosion, rust ,scratches and pitting along the blade[the pamor not visable in a few plces], fortunately most of the pitting was only very shallow and i spent a day and a half of intermitant sanding with 6 grades of sandpaper [the type used in praparing car bodywork] starting with p100 to remove the surface material on both sides to a point where the pittingwas minimal and i could put a polish on the blade[aproximately quarter of a milimeter off both sides but im guessing there]this was the hardest part becuase i had to draw a line between a good surface and changeing the shape /lines of the blade witch i didnt want to do.After this i then gradualy went down in courseness of sandpaper p180,p320,p400,p800,p1500 till it was in a position to be easily polished. Some of our more traditional keris lovers may want to look away now I then did a quick pass on a rotary buffing wheel to polish the blade to a nice shine.And finaly gave the blade a few whipes with a rag soaked in sulfuric acid[car battery acid] to re-open the grain of the blade so the pamor could be set free. In all i probaly removed about 3 quarters of a mill,s worth of material from the blade ,amazeing the difrence it has made and with no detremental afects on the strength of the blade. Make what you will of it,any coments welcome sorry about the grammar Attached Images Last edited by capt.smash; 17th March 2005 at 08:08 PM.

17th March 2005, 05:53 PM	#4
Henk Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 1,209	Did you that by yourself??? The result is great !!! Next step is restoring the gold part and if possible a good dress for this fellow.

17th March 2005, 05:59 PM	#5
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	Looks very good Captain, as some of your past posts show questions about etching, tell us about your experiances to date.

18th March 2005, 02:27 AM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 368	You're the man Capt., believe me you're the man. To me, that metal that makes your keris and the type of pamor is almost impossible to etch; except for the Javaneese specialist. For amature collector to etch a keris like that is SUPERB!! I've used natural realgar, and the result is ok on several kerisses only, that is keris with a kinda porous metal. With kerisses like yours, its almost impossible for me to etch. And yet, you've done it. Perhaps i should use purer realgar. However, i believe most collector in SE Asia would not approve the sandpaper method. As for me, if it works...what the heck... Can u please explain regarding opening the steel grain using sulphuric acid? What does it do to the grain structure?