Meteoric Patrem-Made In England...

[Richard Furrer]

Alan,
I envy your experiences with the Empu...learning traditional craft is a hobby of mine...I was in India in Feb/March looking at museums and talking to smiths (Bhanwarlal) in Rajisthan (North India).
Tradition now is an electric stone grinder and a power hammer. They can still do the old work (well some can), but few are interested in paying. Antiques are cheaper than modern work so many antiques are re-worked with modern tastes and sold.
I saw piles of handles waiting new koftgari...I asked if they make handles and they said "why?"..pointing to the box of old ones.

It seems that more and more the "first world" is preserving techniques lost or unused in the country of origin...not politically correct, but there it is.

As to a living...in smithing...do architectural work not knives.

Ric

[A. G. Maisey]

Yeah, I could see architectural work paying. Once you use the word "architecture" , or any of its derivatives, cost goes up exponentially.

Ric, maybe you envy some of my experience, but I doubt that you would have enjoyed it very much.

Try a full deep squat, with your bum just scraping the ground, and nothing to sit on except your heels.

Now imagine a bench about 15 inches high.

You maintain this squat for hours on end while working with files, scrapers, cold chisels, and all the other hand tools used to sculpt a keris blade.

A normal working day under these conditions was 7.30AM to 3.30PM with a half hour break for lunch.

These were the working conditions for the keris that I made under Empu Suparman's instruction. It took 16 days working like this to make it.

At the time I learnt from Empu Suparman, he was the only maker of whom we knew who was still using traditional methods. Everybody else was using electric grinders, angle grinders, bench grinders, die grinders---etc, and things like Dremels for the detail work. Some makers were---and still do---put on a traditional work show for visitors, but when the visitors go home, they go back to their real workshop and work standing at a normal bench using electric tools, similar to what any metal worker uses these days.

Ain't no money in tradition , mate, and people have to make a living. Empu Suparman never, ever worked on a commercial basis, and did not sell his work, but gave it away. Of course, there was always a reciprocatory gift.

Empu Suparman was my most important teacher, and eventually I became a part of his family, but other empus and pandai keris have also given me a lot of knowledge.

[Richard Furrer]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Yeah, I could see architectural work paying. Once you use the word "architecture" , or any of its derivatives, cost goes up exponentially.

Ric, maybe you envy some of my experience, but I doubt that you would have enjoyed it very much.

Ain't no money in tradition , mate, and people have to make a living. Empu Suparman never, ever worked on a commercial basis, and did not sell his work, but gave it away. Of course, there was always a reciprocatory gift.

Empu Suparman was my most important teacher, and eventually I became a part of his family, but other empus and pandai keris have also given me a lot of knowledge.

Alan,
There is some solice in pain (says the fat American ). ..it can be noble.

I bleed regular when making blades...just did last night after the thing was finished..stupid move on my part.

Alan I have been wondering this for years...do you know if there would be intrest in having some empu, or simply bladesmiths, coming to the US for a period of time to demonstrate? I could host them here in Wisconsin (four hours North of Chicago) and take them to a few gatherings. There have been Japanese smiths, Mexican copper workers, and various European smiths who have done this. I will be hosting some Indian smiths next year.
BUT
All my attempts to get Indonesian smiths here have come to nothing.

Ric

[lemmythesmith]

Hi all! This sounds familiar.... I did seven years working for myself making blades and as a general smith-tradition counts for little, everyone wants stuff as cheap as possible. The only jobs I really made good cash return on were horimono carvings and retempering jobs on old Japanese blades. Wrought ironwork ain't my thing, I don't think I could cope making another spiral staircase! I gave up when the market was flooded with imported gates which retailers could buy for £25, ready made, galvanised and painted.

[A. G. Maisey]

Ric, I'll send you a PM on this question.

Lemmy, yep, cheap rules the day.

Check the price of damascus since India got involved.

Check the price of flannelette shirts since they're made in China.

[P.Abrera]

Originally Posted by Richard Furrer

It seems that more and more the "first world" is preserving techniques lost or unused in the country of origin...not politically correct, but there it is.
Ric

Sad but very true, Ric