A Bugis keris for comments

rasdan · 13th March 2005, 10:00 AM

This keris was said to be a Bugis keris. I agree with that. What do u guys think? Is it a Sulawesi piece? The sampir looks new and in Minang (?) style. Some books refer this kind of sampir as Sulawesi keris. Is it true?

rasdan · 13th March 2005, 10:13 AM

Another thing, is this a Sulawesi keris? As stated in Blu's posting in the other thread, Strait bugis uses lower pendongkok. This one uses that kind of pendongkok, but i think its Sulawesi due to the akwardness of the dress. It kinda wider than average. However the blade is thinner than an average bugis keris. What do u think of the quality of the blade? I think its average. Can u guys please comment? Can somebody post some pictures of Sulawesi Bugis keris and Sumatran/Bugis keris to ease the explaination? Would appreciate that very much.

BluErf · 13th March 2005, 10:30 AM

Rasdan -- I think the sampir on this keris is more Minang than Sulawesi. I suspect this keris is a composite keris with handle, blade and sheath from different sources. For Minang kerises, I've never seen blades such as this. The pendoko form is rather unfamiliar, but I think it could actually be straits Bugis form.

Straits Bugis kerises attached

Alam Shah · 15th March 2005, 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

This keris was said to be a Bugis keris. I agree with that. What do u guys think? Is it a Sulawesi piece? The sampir looks new and in Minang (?) style. Some books refer this kind of sampir as Sulawesi keris. Is it true?

The sampir looks more Minangkabau Sumatra (Frey's The Kris, 3rd Ed, pg.65-67).
The blade however, looks more Javanese, (Dapur Sengkelat ?).
Hilt cup, looks like a variation of the Bugis cup.
Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

rasdan · 15th March 2005, 05:45 AM

Quote:

Pak Rasdan can solve this mystery -- can you show a shot of the top of the hilt?

Sorry Pak Rahman, i dont have that picture. The keris belongs to Museum Negara in KL. The gold keris exhibition is still going on now and I took the pictures about 4-5 months back.

Alam - I think this is just a composite keris. Everything is wrong. Perhaps the dress were newly made and the tukang thought i may be cool like that. And mu opinion the mata may be javaneese or most likely south sumatran. If its javaneese it is most likely the tang of this keris had been cut to be fitted with a kerdas hilt.

Alam Shah · 15th March 2005, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rasdan

Alam - I think this is just a composite keris. Everything is wrong. Perhaps the dress were newly made and the tukang thought i may be cool like that. And my opinion the mata may be javaneese or most likely south sumatran. If its javaneese it is most likely the tang of this keris had been cut to be fitted with a kerdas hilt.

Good observation on the tang difference.
According to some esoteric belief, a cut tang (or pesi), might weaken or destroy the strength of the initial spirit within ('hilang semangat keris').

rasdan · 15th March 2005, 09:30 AM

Some time ago i had a new Palembang piece. Its actually a javaneese keris fitted in a Palembang dress. The tang is obviously been cut away. Thats where i begin to observe that javaneese kerisses in Malay dress be it new or old, most of them had their tang shorten. Unless, of course it may not been cut if fitted with a taller jawa demam hilt. However we generally can observe that javaneese tang is much slenderer compared to Malay/Bugis etc tangs. Bottom line, before purchasing a keris, the tang size and length is really important. "Bugis" empus in Aeng Tong Tong already discovered this but then theres a lot more for them to learn. In a few years, they'll catch to the beat.

13th March 2005, 10:00 AM	#1
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	This keris was said to be a Bugis keris. I agree with that. What do u guys think? Is it a Sulawesi piece? The sampir looks new and in Minang (?) style. Some books refer this kind of sampir as Sulawesi keris. Is it true? Attached Images

13th March 2005, 10:30 AM	#3
BluErf Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Singapore Posts: 1,180	Rasdan -- I think the sampir on this keris is more Minang than Sulawesi. I suspect this keris is a composite keris with handle, blade and sheath from different sources. For Minang kerises, I've never seen blades such as this. The pendoko form is rather unfamiliar, but I think it could actually be straits Bugis form. Straits Bugis kerises attached Attached Images

15th March 2005, 09:30 AM	#7
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Some time ago i had a new Palembang piece. Its actually a javaneese keris fitted in a Palembang dress. The tang is obviously been cut away. Thats where i begin to observe that javaneese kerisses in Malay dress be it new or old, most of them had their tang shorten. Unless, of course it may not been cut if fitted with a taller jawa demam hilt. However we generally can observe that javaneese tang is much slenderer compared to Malay/Bugis etc tangs. Bottom line, before purchasing a keris, the tang size and length is really important. "Bugis" empus in Aeng Tong Tong already discovered this but then theres a lot more for them to learn. In a few years, they'll catch to the beat. Last edited by rasdan; 15th March 2005 at 09:42 AM.

13th March 2005, 10:13 AM	#2
rasdan Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Kuala Lumpur Posts: 369	Another thing, is this a Sulawesi keris? As stated in Blu's posting in the other thread, Strait bugis uses lower pendongkok. This one uses that kind of pendongkok, but i think its Sulawesi due to the akwardness of the dress. It kinda wider than average. However the blade is thinner than an average bugis keris. What do u think of the quality of the blade? I think its average. Can u guys please comment? Can somebody post some pictures of Sulawesi Bugis keris and Sumatran/Bugis keris to ease the explaination? Would appreciate that very much.