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27th September 2007, 05:36 PM
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#1 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Longtime not to hear you, where have you been? journey to other continent   I also hear that some "wos wutah/split rices" pamors are classified as "ilining warih/flowing water" or/and "wahyu tumurun/[english?]". As Pak Alan said, in conservative ways, it is called simply "wos wutah". When we try to make more specific name either flowing water pamor, wahyu tumurun pamor, jung isi donyo pamor or (especially) rojo gundolo pamor, the space of discussion will be opened. Pak Ganja, I am waiting for you to upload Tombaks images warm salam, Usmen PS: do someone know dapur laler mengeng? what did people believe with this kind of keris (e.g. it was believed that golden rain pamor would make the owner could enjoy prosperity). |
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27th September 2007, 09:55 PM
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#2 |
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Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,376
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Tombak
An old one ?
 Thoughts, comments ?
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27th September 2007, 10:21 PM
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#3 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,085
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Pak Usmen, I have not encountered any esoteric beliefs attached to dhapur laler mengeng.
I've just had a look at several books where I would expect to find mention of this if there was some belief attached to laler mengeng, and there is no mention of such a belief. Apart from this, there seems to be a little confusion about exactly what the characteristics of laler mengeng are. I've always known it as a straight keris with an inwards turning kembang kacang, as shown in Ensiklopedi, but some people seem to believe it is a straight keris with the kembang kacang in correct orientation, but constrained within the bounds of the gandhik. This is not at all unusual in discussion of dhapur; it can be a source for considerable disagreement between equally knowledgeable people.In fact, in my experience, almost everything to do with keris can generate unending discussion, especially if we have two---or more--- knowledgeable people, both of whom are convinced they are right--- when maybe there is no "right", and no "wrong", just different opinions. Rick, to me, this looks like a Mataram tombak where the metuk has lost form; the base of a Mataram metuk spreads more widely than the metuk in this tombak. This metuk is more like Tuban, but the blade body is totally unlike Tuban. To give a reasonably supportable opinion it would really be necessary to handle this tombak. |
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28th September 2007, 07:07 AM
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#4 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,085
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Two tombak.
The black one is a Mangkunegaraan Palace tombak, stamped on one face "99" & "1862", stamped on the other face "M" & "4". The brass brongsong on the landean is stamped "86" & "1862" A Surakarta classification tombak with metuk kinatah. |
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30th September 2007, 03:33 AM
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#5 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7
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 Someone's. |
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7th October 2007, 03:56 AM
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#6 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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Korowelang (13 luks)
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I have similar tombaks as yours, although they maybe come from different tangguh. I hope, they are from Mataram era... With thirteen luks, so we call them (yours too) as tombak with dapur korowelang... Ganjawulung |
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7th October 2007, 04:15 AM
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#7 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
Posts: 991
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Another Korowelang
This is another type of korowelang tombak, slimmer with 13 luks too. Hopefully from Mataram era...
Ganjawulung |
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7th October 2007, 07:43 AM
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#8 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 199
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Quote:
Hallo Gonjo welcome back to the waroeng I wonder why there are a lot of dapur korowelangs expected tangguh Mataram Sultanangungan (Sultan Agung Era). I have found them several times. Even I have one tombak similiar as yours. According to Stephen's Tombak, I agree with you that it is one type of barukuping. If Stephen hangs two small bells on the holes, it will be called baruklinthing [?](klinthing=small bell) . One of the legendary tombak in Jawa is Kiai Baruklinthing. Any kerislovers know where Kiai Baruklinthing is now?Kiai Baruklinthing was the grand pusaka of Ki Ageng Mangir (descent of Ki Ageng Giring). Babad Ki Ageng Mangir is just like a shakespeare/hamlet from England. It is believed that he is the ancestor of people who use Kolopaking as their family name. However, Kolopaking name was known long after Ki Ageng Mangir era (Kolopaking v. Arumbinang (his)-Strory). Warm salam, Usmen |
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7th October 2007, 04:21 PM
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#9 |
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Vikingsword Staff
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,376
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Many Thanks
Thank you very much for sharing your knowledge Ganjawulung .
It is also nice to see tombaks of similar form . Do you have any comments on the metuk; it appears to be a seperate piece but it's hard to tell because the whole tombak is so eroded .
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8th October 2007, 06:33 AM
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#10 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
It seems that your methuk is from the type of "methuk sekar", or methuk with pamor. Other types of methuk based on this categorization are: "methuk tretes" (methuk ornamented with kinds of precious stones, combined with silver of gold), "methuk kinatah" (methuk with gold ornaments like Mr Usmen's tombak of Kalacakra), "methuk serasah" (ornamented with thin layers of gold or silver), and "methuk wulung" or of flat black iron... But from the formation of the methuk, you may call it as "methuk rabi" (separated methuk), rather than "methuk iras" or one piece of methuk with the tombak blade. On methuk, I agree with Alan that methuk is one of the primary indicator if we want to determine the tangguh of the tombak. But it needs more studies on the tangguh of tombak... For comparation of the form of methuk, here I will show you the picture of my tombak from the Paku Buwono era (Solo after "palihan nagari" or the division of Mataram, after 1755)... Ganjawulung |
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21st October 2007, 10:25 PM
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#11 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 199
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test
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8th October 2007, 05:52 AM
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#12 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
Ganjawulung |
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1st October 2007, 11:44 AM
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#13 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
I am still in Changi Singapore, on the way back to Jakarta from Paris. I will join with you all, tomorrow... Ganjawulung |
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1st October 2007, 07:42 PM
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#14 |
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Inland Empire, Southern California USA
Posts: 160
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My Tombaks. I tryed to show the dress of the small one that exhibits chatoyantcy; possessing a changeable luster, like that of a cat's eye, Enjoy.
Stephen     
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2nd October 2007, 11:47 PM
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#15 |
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 7
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Morning everyone !!!!!!
Does this consider a tombak or an arrow head ??? Cause it's only 9cm not including the pesi.   
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3rd October 2007, 02:08 AM
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#16 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 7,085
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Not one nor the other, I think, but in length, closer to bedor than tombak.
Would not surprise me if this is CE Madura work. |
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7th October 2007, 04:46 AM
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#17 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: J a k a r t a
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Quote:
Your tombak in the center, is really a nice looking tombak. We call it, tombak with dapur "baru kuping", with kind of two holes near the base of the tombak. Like holes for earrings. "Kuping" in javanese language means "ear". And "baru" could mean "new", but for the tombak term, it is a name of straight tombak dapur... The "sarung" (tombak sheath) with such model, Madurese people call it as "seken". Madurese people use to bring the seken with tombak behind their clothes. Hidden... (This picture below, I show you the "seken" model, with tombak made in 20th century, with "silver-nickel" pamor of "teja kinurung" (surrounded light?). It has "methuk susun" or piled methuk...) Ganjawulung |
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