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Old 12th September 2007, 07:48 PM   #1
archer
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Default Stamp on a Turkish muzzle loader

Can anyone read this Turkish or Arabic stamping? Thank you, for looking.

Steve
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Old 12th September 2007, 10:00 PM   #2
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Good Day
the alphabet is arabic
but apparently, according with my favorite translator
my spouse no meaning in arabic language
may be, should be in turkish

rgds

+

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Old 13th September 2007, 01:54 AM   #3
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Default Firearm

Hey Archer,

Nice looking firearm you have, pattern welded barrel, gold inlaid designs and a makers stamp on the barrel.

Not sure what technique of inlay was used for applying the goldwork. In general the Turkish technique was a triangular punch done in series creating a line that was inlaid with gold.

The Persian tended to use either a dot punch not overlaying the punch marks but also making a line where gold was inlaid. They also used a channel cut and inlay.

Both used a series of groove grooves cut where the body of a larger design was with a line defining the border.

Turkish designs tend to be more symetrical all the time.

My guess from looking at this photo is that your firearm has a Persian made barrel and I suspect the armours mark to be Farsi.

What is the shape of the stock?

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Old 13th September 2007, 03:58 AM   #4
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Default additional photos

I bought it in 1968 in Istanbul in the covered bazar thinking it was a jaejar from Germany; but, have now come to understand it could well be Turkish. The inset of gold was done in an undercut channel, and looks like connected dots.

The most unique feature is its hidden peep sight in the tang. Theres another and different cartouche on the lock plate It's hard to photograph and I even tried a rubbing couldn't get it clear enough. Thank you for your help.

Steve
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Old 13th September 2007, 04:53 AM   #5
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Default Interesting Firearm

Hey Archer,

Interesting firearm you have. Would keep an open mind to this firearm being either Turkish of Persian. Have had a late 18th C. Turkish miquelet with a very similar rear sight, the one on my gun certainly could have been added during the 19th century.

It interesting that the lock has the makers stamp also. Is it the same mark as on the barrel? You rifle shows strong European influemce with the type of stock it has. A study of the lock may give you valuable clues as to when this gun was made. Looks to be a well made firearm, a three pin percussion lock, the shape of the stock may help date this weapon also. My gut feeling is between 1840-1880 time period, would certainly be possible to be a little earlier of later. Sort of based my assumption by the shape of the hammer, the hammer arm being squarish on its backside and the European style stock.

Will be inetresting to hear more opinions on it....

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Old 13th September 2007, 04:58 AM   #6
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Default Example of Persian barrel makers mark....

Hey Archer,

This is an example of a similar Persian barrel makers mark, this one translates to,"Amal-e Kuchak Ali bar Tofangiran"

The work of Kuchak Ali for the musketeers/rifleholders

Is written in Farsi....

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Old 14th September 2007, 06:32 PM   #7
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Rand, this doesn't hold a candle to your museum piece, obliviously made for royalty.
This lock is typical of the era, it shows abuse and an excellent sear repair. unlike most most exposed metalwork of the era the thimble and trigger guard are not embellished the screws are all cut square opposed to V cuts of English guns.

I've included a shot of a German jaeger comparison. This gun is stout and shoulders very steady, it's almost as though the inlays covering up it's origin.
Oh, other than seeking out a turkish speaking person who reads arabic, how can I solve the mystery as your trying to do?

Steve
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Old 14th September 2007, 06:50 PM   #8
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Default Percussion rifle

Hello Archer,

Found it very interesting about the square and "V" cuts on the screws. What time period do you date your rifle to?

Had the armours mark on my barrel translated by Manouchehr on the Swordd Forum in the middle Eastern arms section. That forum is swords only so just post the armors mark and ask for a translation, if its Farsi you will get a translation for it.

http://www.swordforum.com/
above link is for sword forum

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?t=81698
Aove link is thread showing translations

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Old 14th September 2007, 09:26 PM   #9
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Default More Info

Thanks Rand, I was pondering your question, when I spotted a proof mark peeping out almost hidden by the stock. I would say age mid 1800s. Then the lights came on briefly. All the British guns I've owned or handled are dripping with proof marks on all major parts. I have to assume German and other European guns would be the same. Thanks for the links, I'll look into them.

Steve
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Old 14th September 2007, 09:39 PM   #10
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Archer,

The mark on your barrel reads, IMTIHAN.
It means TESTED or PROVED

Ham
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Old 14th September 2007, 10:27 PM   #11
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Default Proof Mark

Hey Ham,

Can you tell me if the proof mark is in Arabic, Turkish or Farsi?

Thanks,

rand
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Old 14th September 2007, 11:02 PM   #12
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Thanks Rand, I was pondering your question, when I spotted a proof mark peeping out almost hidden by the stock. I would say age mid 1800s. Then the lights came on briefly. All the British guns I've owned or handled are dripping with proof marks on all major parts. I have to assume German and other European guns would be the same. Thanks for the links, I'll look into them.

Steve

Thanks, Ham I thought it might be a date of manufacture. I had a glitch and double posted.

Steve
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Last edited by archer : 14th September 2007 at 11:31 PM. Reason: double post
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