Between Solo and Yogya

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

I do apologise Pak Ganja, I failed to respond to this question of yours.

"So, dhapur pasopati is older than the form of dhapur (jalak) budo?"

Please note that I quoted legend as the source for this.

I did not say that I believed this legend.

Of course, you may believe it if you wish, just as I believe that King Arthur pulled a sword from a lump of rock.

Dear Alan,
Do apologize me once again, if I respond to this matter first. This sounds very interesting for me, to hear an information -- that I considered new for me -- that the more sophisticated form of dhapur pasopati was created by Mpu Ramadi in the Javanese year of 152. Then a question raised in my mind: is dhapur pasopati older than keris (jalak) budo?

This is what I quote from the discussion in this post. Mr PenangsangII asked us like this:
And another stupid question, according to tangguhan, original dapor pasopati was created during which era?
And Alan respond in his post in the discussion:
According to legend, the Mpu who first made a keris dapur pasopati was Mpu Ramadi in the Javanese year 152.
PenangsangII asked more in the later post:
...though I have no idea how to guess what year exactly is Jawanese year 152...
Alan responded:
152 Saka would be around 230 AD in the Gregorian calender.
Then I asked Alan:
So, dhapur pasopati is older than the form of (jalak) budo?
Alan responded later in one of his post:
Please note that I quoted legend as the source for this.
I did not say that I believed this legend.
Of course, you may believe if you wish, just as I believe that King Arthur pulled a sword from a lump of rock.

This info is something new for me, regarding that the form of pasopati which is more complicated than the form of simple dhapur of jalak budo. These pictures below are only showing the three kerises with dhapur pasopati, and one keris with dhapur jalak budo which is believed by most keris lovers in Java, as "the older form of keris" in the past...

Ganjawulung

[A. G. Maisey]

Pak Ganja, I suspect we may have a slight language difficulty here.

The fact that legend attributes dapur Pasopati to an origin in the year 152 Saka does not mean that dapur Pasopati is older than the buda form of keris.

It means only that according to legendary belief dapur Pasopati dates from Saka 152.

This is legend Pak Ganja. Legend. Legends can and sometimes do claim absolutely unbelieveable things. It is best not to confuse legend with fact.

Source of the information is the Damartaji reprint of "Buku Gambar Dhapuripun Dhuwung Saha Waos"

[ganjawulung]

Originally Posted by A. G. Maisey

Pak Ganja, I suspect we may have a slight language difficulty here.

The fact that legend attributes dapur Pasopati to an origin in the year 152 Saka does not mean that dapur Pasopati is older than the buda form of keris.

It means only that according to legendary belief dapur Pasopati dates from Saka 152.

This is legend Pak Ganja. Legend. Legends can and sometimes do claim absolutely unbelieveable things. It is best not to confuse legend with fact.

Source of the information is the Damartaji reprint of "Buku Gambar Dhapuripun Dhuwung Saha Waos"

Thanks a lot Alan, for your info. Not an important thing, but interesting for me. If you mention the title "Buku Gambar Dhapuripun Duwung Saha Waos" (Book on Dhapur Pictures of Kerises and Spear), then it must be the book that was written by the popular writer in Javanese literature, Raden Ngabehi Ronggowarsito.

Yes, the original copy of the book is now in the hand of Mr Haryono Guritno - the writer of Keris Jawa, Antara Mistik dan Nalar. But according to Damartaji (Keris Association of Jakarta) they never printed or even reprinted that Ronggowarsito book. Damartaji only printed, and reprinted the book "Dhapur" which keris illustration, was written by Kanjeng Gusti Pangeran Hario (KGPH) Hadiwijoyo -- an intelectual, son of the late King Paku Buwono X. He once studied in Leiden, Holland and had a vast knowledge on keris at that time. But this book on "Dhapur" did not mention on the creator of certain dapurs, such as pasopati.

For me it is interesting to know, that dhapur keris Pasopati actualy was created in the early era of the 3rd century... While, according to my "limiting belief" from oral tradition, keris (jalak) budo, and of course some other kinds of betok budo -- which has more simple details (ricikan) on keris, is one of the oldest form of Javanese keris. Some evidence (old kerises which bear dhapur betok or jalak budo), supposed to come from Singasari era (13th century), or earlier.

Pasopati -- straight keris with such sophisticated details of two sogokan, sekar kacang pogok (not a full kembang kacang), and double greneng or greneng sungsun -- is one of favorit dhapur among keris collectors.

Ganjawulung