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9th September 2007, 06:18 PM
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Paku Buwono X and Hamengku Buwono VII
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Apologize me, for my late responding of Alan’s question. It’s been five days I was “off air” because of my total concentration for another business. Thanks a lot for your patience… I am sorry Alan, I’d better choose “solo school” and “jogja school” instead of “kerisology”. Would you mind if I do that? It is quite fair if we compare the cultural products of the best era of both schools. Especially in their keris world. The best of Paku Buwono era in keris making, was happened during the reign of their richest king, Susuhunan Paku Buwono X (1893-1939). Coincidentally, in Jogja, it happened in the same era, during the reign of their richest king too, of Sultan Hamengku Buwono VII (1877-1921). It was the most peaceful era among the two “rivals”, between Jogja and Solo. And the golden era of Javanese palace royal dances, traditional music, and also keris making, happened too in the reign of these richest kings. One of the two consorts of king PB X, was GKR Hemas – the daughter of HB VII in Jogjakarta. King PB X had two consorts, and more than 34 mistresses. (At least, 34 mistresses had the royal descents…). Someday, I hope to write more details on the comparison of the style of kerises from these two richest kings of Jogja and Solo. And better too, if I will be able to put the pictures of both era. Keris with tangguh PB X, has really different style with keris with tangguh HB VII. You may see, that kerises with tangguh HB VII was continuing the old style of the older Mataram – say it continuing some older forms from three styles of “older” Mataram: Mataram Senopaten, Sultan Agungan, or even Amangkuratan… (Mr Boedhy Adithya knows better than me on this popular style of Jogja keris). While kerises with tangguh PB X, are really "new" solonese type. The specific form of ganja, for instance, you may be able to recognize quite easily, that the style is real solonese type. Not older Mataram, nor Majapahit. I hope, this simple explanation answers the question from Alan, for the time being… Ganjawulung |
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9th September 2007, 08:16 PM
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#2 |
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Ratu Pandito
Dear Raden Usman,
Speaking about Sultan Hamengku Buwono VII, I'd like to hear the story about "Pendito Ratu" (Priest King?), and "lengser keprabon" (step down from the throne, before the king passed away) which was done by HB VII. After lengser keprabon, HB VII then stayed outside Kraton Jogjakarta. (Jogja then reigned by his son, HB VIII). The new home of the "Priest King" HB VII was in Ambarrukmo. (In Pendopo complex near international hotel Ambarrukmo, in front of Bale Kambang Restaurant). A piece succession in Jogja. Would you mind, Raden? Ganjawulung |
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9th September 2007, 08:24 PM
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Error
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Elementary error.... it should be "a peace succession", instead of "piece"... |
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12th September 2007, 08:10 PM
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I am so sorry not responding your question soon because I must consider to answer or not for a while. My "data" is quite sensitive to be shared with, especially someone like you who have lots of friends in Djokja. I am sure that some of them are HB VII's offsprings. Who knows that even you are among them  At least, who knows that in your blood flows Djokja royal blood.Finally, I decide to share with you and kerislovers (as cultural background for understanding keris as David said) According to HB VII. Mainstream story is just the same as you have already mentioned. However, other version goes to the opposite direction. HB VII was abdicated by Ndoro Tuan Eyang Wilhelmina (Dutch Colonial Administration). Then he moved (mesanggrah) to Pesanggrahan Ambarukmo. The intrique during succession to HB VIII was not bloody but very cruel. The crown prince was dead suddently and mysteriously. Some believed he was possioned. The second candidate prince was afraid to face the strange situation. He was quite smart to survive but "unbravery" to race for winning a throne. He pretended becoming crazy/mad. As a result, the board considered that he was not eligible as King of Djokja. Then, other prince was chose as HB VIII. The smart but "unbravery" prince was survive. His talent pretending to be someone else (a crazy man) was inherited by some of his offsprings. Now, there is a prominent Indonesian comedian who can imitate beautifully and perfectly other personalities (gestures and even sounds). Some people believe that he is one of great grandsons (?) of the smart prince mentioned above. I am sure that you know him and, perhaps, you have an opportunity to crosscheck the story I shared to him  .According to Pendito Ratu Most people refers "Pendito Ratu" based on Kediri Kingdom, King Airlangga or Mahabharata Book (Jawa version): either Puntodewo in post-Great War era or Begawan Abiyoso in pre-Great War era. However, I dont have enough knowledge to tell about wayang (shadow puppet). Perhaps, we can ask KIAI CARITO to elaborate broadly about "lengser keprabon madheg pandhito" (stepping down from the throne becoming a priest) warm salam, Usmen |
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13th September 2007, 11:56 PM
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This is more interesting for me. What I knew is only "sweet" story version. Just like "Nugroho Notosusanto" (Indonesian contemporary historian) told us about the "Orde Baru" (Indonesian New Era, Suharto era) story. Sweet Suharto... Just like knowing the intriguing story behind The Beatles. Knowing the conflict between John Lennon vs Paul McCartney, after John married to Japanese Yoko Ono, was not less important than knowing the greatness of these Liverpool brats... Ganjawulung |
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14th September 2007, 05:09 AM
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#6 |
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Of course some information from our history were surpressed by the ruler of that time...info that would be detrimental to his throne especially. Even today, Dubya would surpress the info on how many civilian casualties in Iraq. I think that news surpression happens everywhere......
Pak Raden, I dont quite understand, why Raden Ronggo had to be sacrificed to the Ratu Laut Selatan. If he was so powerful, definitely he was an asset to the kingdom, wasnt he? |
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14th September 2007, 07:31 AM
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Raden Ronggo was not sacrified to the Queen of South Sea. In Jawa, it is different. The act to offer (ing)[?] sacrifation to the Queen of South Sea will be considered as "munjung" (I dont know the translation "munjung" in english). Someone who do "munjung" are usually because they want to be rich by shortcut ways [by collaborating with "evil" spirit such as Butoijo (Blue giant), Inthok (no translation), Babi Ngepet (pig which its tail always spin), Kethekputih (White Monkey), Blorong (half human body half snake tail, it is believd by "munjung" to advisor of the Queen of South Sea, called Nyai Roro Kidul). According to Raden Ronggo. In developing political power point of view, sometimes, someone who has a remakable ability will be considered as a disturbance factor to the established system. It is beyond the capability of the political environment to absorb and to adapt the "remarkable" person's manuvers. It happens till now. For instance, perhaps Datuk Anwar Ibrahim of Malaysia has great vision further and faster than other political actors. For personal achievement, it is remarkable. But in term of political or power movement (corporate point of view), his individual action is considered as a disturbance factor for the whole system. Unhuman but logic, a disturbance factor must be eliminated (erased). If not, there is a possibility that whole system will be collapsed/crimpled[?]. Senopati as A king in New Born Kingdom (or Mahathir as the PM of a 43/45 years old country) knew well how to save greater goals (then by sacrificing individual/smaller satisfaction). One of the actions of Raden Ronggo. During the banquet for welcoming of King of Banten courtesy visit to Panembahan Senopati, King of Banten asked one of his warrior to perform a spectacle "debus". This warrior invulnerable to swords, keris, tombak and any sharp weapons. To make more impresive, the warrior asked audience to try to hit him by any weapons which they wanted. As a young warrior, Ronggo could not elude from this challence. Raden Ronggo went closer to the warrior and pounded/striked the warrior smoothly with his hand without using sharp weapons. As a result, the warrior's breast broke severely and he died instantly. It was upsetting his father. Why? Because Banten Kingdom location was in farmost western of Jawa. At that time, Panembahan Senopati wanted to make peace with every Kingdom which were located in western Mataram border. Panembahan Senopati had a plan to launch champaigns to invade kingdoms in eastern Jawa. Panembahan Senopati was very brillyiant. Whilst he declared war to eastern kingdoms, he made peace accords with western ones. Something likes balance of power theory in contemporary politics. The action of his eldest son during the banquet disturbed his hidden agenda: to build an imperium. Raden Ronggo was sent to the Queen of South Sea. Perhaps, it is euphemism of reality. The intepretation could be: "someone sent (threw away) to the sea (the Queen's palace was in the deep of the sea) means that he senteced dead (either before the law or unlawful)". warm regards, Usmen |
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14th September 2007, 06:15 AM
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Gusti Djuminah
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Salam Raden Usman, I think that you are refering to Gusti Djuminah, who would have been HBVIII but instead was put under house arrest (kurantil) untill he died short after the Japanese occupation. Yes, Gusti Djuminah's descendants are still alive and active in the arts and culture scene in Yogya and Indonesia. And the story of their great grandfather is rather different from yours, there is no cowardise in the memory of the family. I used to be a student of Bagong Kussudiardjo and his sons are friends of mine. Salam hangat, Bram |
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14th September 2007, 07:42 AM
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I am sorry if my story is different from. As I explained before, that is why I need a time to consider for responding or not Gonjo's question. My story could be controvertial one. I am just storyteller. Em... unbravery doesnt mean cowardise, does it? Please, dont tell my story to your friends. I like to live in peace and harmony warm salam, Usmen |
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15th September 2007, 04:08 AM
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Gusti Djoeminah
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As far as I know there is no unbravery in scrabble...Maybe Alan can help us here being a true-blue native speaker. But oral history about a crown-prince who lost his throne to another prince is likely to have different nuances depending on which side of the family tells it. Salam hangat kembali, Bram |
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15th September 2007, 06:32 AM
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Dunno about scrabble---probably depends on the stakes of the game.
But it does take incredible bravery to make some types of remark in public. Particularly if one does not personally know the family and political affiliations of all who might hear, or read those remarks. |
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15th September 2007, 06:39 AM
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hahahaha... I give up permaturely if criticized about my english language usage. Since I am quite lazy to check what I am writing out dictionary. The logic of Indonesian and Jawa langauges influence my way to express in English, such us using "prefix of negative meaning". If a languase is an ocean. There are Jawa ocean, Indonesian Ocean, English Ocean, Allemand Ocean, Francais Ocean et cetera et cetera. Till now, perhaps, I can swim but I cannot dive yet. Swimming by simplestyle. However, someday, I hope I can do both swimming and diving. So please help me by correcting every posting I make in term of correct english usage. I will appreciate it. Thank you for correcting gramatically my posting. Hope you will do it again and again. Then I can learn both keris knowledge and english language through this beloved forum. warm salam, Usmen |
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13th September 2007, 02:48 AM
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according to Peace succession Nowadays, there is quite messy succession in Kasunanan Surakarta. There are two princes claiming as the legitimate PB XIII: Hangabehi and Tejowulan. Some media-celebritists gave comment through newspapers, radios and tv channels urging these PB XIII to follow their ancestors way. Amongst media-celebritists, to follow their ancestors way means to make succession peacefully. However, the conflict during succession tends to erupt (perhaps, till now). Perhaps, to follow their ancestors way is interpreted by two competed princes as it was. During Mataram Islam era, most succession was unpeace. The first king of Mataram (Panembahan Senopati) killed his eldest son (Raden Ronggo) for the purpose to create strong foundation of the new Jawa Dynasti. Raden Ronggo's divine power was unimaginable. Someone like him in the early of dynasti founding was needed in the battlefields. Meanwhile, as the eldest son of King, he has a legitimation if he demanded the throne. For a King, giant divine power is not first requirement. Just like football, strikers like Henry and Ronaldo were needed in a team as goal makers in the game. But to be a king of Mataram, he had to have "corporate" thought. In Premiere League, someone like Sir Alex Ferguson or Arsene Wenger of Arsenal are "corporate" person/leader. Raden Ronggo did not have "corporate" thought. His Father decided a harsh way to eliminate him (by killing). According the legend, Panembahan Senopati asked the Queen of South Sea (genie) to take care of Raden Ronggo. Perhaps, it could be intepreted that Raden Ronggo's corpse threw away into the deep of South Sea (Hindia Ocean). Once it begins, it will never stop. The successor of Panembahan Senopati was killed during deer hunting season and the new king was handicap since he was born. He was abdicated soon after his corronation replaced by Sultan Agung (Sultan the Great). The successor of Sultan Agung was a notorious man since he was young. The age of unpeaceful succession in Mataram is as old as Mataram Kingdom. Previuos thread I shared about HB VII-VIII. Other story, there is an autobiography book of Partini. She was a daughter of Mangkunegoro VI. In her book, she told that her father (Romo Bagus, bagus means charming, beause his father was handsome) informing her that he juat became new Mangkunegoro. Mangkunegoro V was abdicated then "exciled" to Surabaja. In general, all of descendants of Mataram:Surakarta, Djokja, Mengkunegaran and Pakualaman "always" face the same situation during succession. So... the legacy of unpeaceful succession, we can still see today. Even, it is beyond the wall of Jawa Palaces. Seemingly, the modern Indonesia follows Mataram ways  If Indonesia human right activist was trully killed by arsenicum. Well... you all know arsenicum. It is called "warangan" to etching Keris and spear-head. Poisioning with arsenicum (warangan) was ancient way in Jawa. So... perhaps (assumed that Munir was killed), the killer is a kerislover...... just kidding mateswarm salam, Usmen |
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13th September 2007, 05:48 AM
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Incidentally, I perhaps should have mentioned this previously, but it has only now occurred to me that it could be something that is not common knowledge.
Pasopati is the usual Jawa spelling of Pasupati. Pasupati is another name for Rudra, the "lord of creatures", creatures in the more specific sense of livestock (pasu= livestock, pati=lord) . Of course, Rudra appears in the Vedas, and his attributes are what later developed into Siwa, who did not appear in the Vedas, so Rudra can be a name for Siwa, just as Pasupati is one of the names of Siwa. Thus, if we term a keris form "Pasupati", or "Pasopati", we are using a name of Siwa. Gives one something to dwell upon, does it not? |
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9th September 2007, 08:38 PM
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dear Ganja and kerislovers, I am really eager to watch images of keris and tombak (spearhead) that are believed as PB X period (tangguh). Even I am eager to hold and to have it someday. Till now, I dont have any kerises and spearheads of PB X period. So, it is highly appreciated if you may upload and share the images of kerises and tombaks of PB X period. Thnak you very much in advanced. warm salam, Usmen |
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10th September 2007, 12:09 AM
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#16 |
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Pak Ganja, once again a very beautiful answer, and one with content with which I concur, but once again, your answer does not come anywhere near addressing the question I am attempting to ask.
This is very embarrassing for me, because one of the cornerstones of my profession is the ability to ask questions clearly. Obviously have failed to do this. I am in two minds as to whether to just let this matter pass, or to try again to phrase my question in a way that will be understood.After due consideration I have decided to try one more time. I used the phrase "school of kerisology" to indicate the study, practice, beliefs of all things to do with keris. I did this because I did not want to narrow my question to one specific area of keris study nor practice, but to make my question as wide, and as flexible as possible. I have no real objection to use of the word "school" only, but in its normal interpretation in English, this word in this context is taken as applying principally to stylistic aspects of a particular art form. My question is not directed specifically at the stylistic differences between keris made in Solo style, nor keris made in Jogja style. I have absolutely no intention of seeking an answer in any way related to stylistic differences between Solo keris and Jogja keris. My attempt at phrasing the question broadly , with the objective of allowing you room to move in providing an answer failed. It failed, I think, because I was insufficiently clear in respect of the specifics. You have answered in terms of keris physical style, but following on from the exchange that that has generated my further questioning, keris style is really not material to the original question. To recap:- On 31st. August, Pak Ganja posted this:- "The edge of old keris, is usually "serrated" (pls correct me, if I used the wrong English term), because of age, and corrosion. In Solo, the practice of "mbesut" (smoothen the serrated edge, reshape the blade) is permitted. Of course, by the specialist of it. Matang is a wellknown specialist of mbesut practice in Kraton Solo. You may call, such old but reshaped keris as "keris besutan" or "keris larasan". So, "mbesut" or "nglaras" (verb) keris, contains intention of reshaping, beautifying the corroded keris edge -- of course, without heat treatment. But for they who don't agree with such practice, may call such reshaped keris as "keris ongotan" (negative meaning). Ongotan means "sharpened", like pencil. (True) yogyanese, doesn't practice this..." On 1st. September Penangsang asked :- "---Which one of these two schools - Solo & Yogja, follow the tradition of old schools of say, Mataram era? I believe that I read it somewhere that Sultan Agung's time was actually the keris golden era.---" On 1st. September Pak Ganja replied:- "---Both "schools" follow most of the old tradition, and only different in certain aspects (sometimes totally different). In certain sense, Solo school is more modern.---" Penangsang has now clarified his question, and I understand his question to cover all aspects of the keris. Since the original exchange which has generated my query clearly dealt specifically with one practice of keris maintenance which is carried out in Solo, but which is (supposedly) not carried out in Jogja, I shall now refine my question to address the specifics of only keris maintenance. Please note:- I am not talking about keris style, I am talking about keris maintenance. I am not talking about keris making, I am talking about keris maintenance. I am not questioning present day practice of keris maintenance, I am questioning the tradition of keris maintenance as it applied in a previous era, which for the sake of this question, I shall fix as Mataram. Pak Ganja, here is my question:- Based upon your post of 31st August in which you state that certain practices of keris maintenance are acceptable in Solo, but unacceptable in Jogja, and upon your post of 1st. September in which you state that both Solo and Jogja follow old traditions, and in the full understanding that your post of 1st September was in response to a question raised on 1st September which set Mataram as the era to be taken as the point of reference to establish "old traditions", will you please respond to these questions:- a) in the context of the above quoted posts, and bearing in mind that the Mataram era can be taken to cover a very long period of time, will you please provide a reference year for Mataram, as you intended "Mataram" to be understood in your response of 1st September which was directed at a question that specified "Mataram" as a point of reference. b) are you able to provide any evidence of "old traditions" in respect of the way in which keris maintenance was carried out in, prior to, or about the year you have specified in your answer to question a). By "evidence" I mean documentary evidence, or a verbal tradition that can be substantiated by supporting evidence of any kind. I thank you for your cooperation in my attempts to clarify this for both myself, and for our readers. I had hoped to avoid interrogative questions of this nature, but it seems that when I try to be less than direct, I am also less than clear. |
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10th September 2007, 12:25 AM
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I do apologise Pak Ganja, I failed to respond to this question of yours.
"So, dhapur pasopati is older than the form of dhapur (jalak) budo?" Please note that I quoted legend as the source for this. I did not say that I believed this legend. Of course, you may believe it if you wish, just as I believe that King Arthur pulled a sword from a lump of rock. |
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10th September 2007, 03:26 AM
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Do apologize me once again, if I respond to this matter first. This sounds very interesting for me, to hear an information -- that I considered new for me -- that the more sophisticated form of dhapur pasopati was created by Mpu Ramadi in the Javanese year of 152. Then a question raised in my mind: is dhapur pasopati older than keris (jalak) budo? This is what I quote from the discussion in this post. Mr PenangsangII asked us like this: And another stupid question, according to tangguhan, original dapor pasopati was created during which era? And Alan respond in his post in the discussion: According to legend, the Mpu who first made a keris dapur pasopati was Mpu Ramadi in the Javanese year 152. PenangsangII asked more in the later post: ...though I have no idea how to guess what year exactly is Jawanese year 152... Alan responded: 152 Saka would be around 230 AD in the Gregorian calender. Then I asked Alan: So, dhapur pasopati is older than the form of (jalak) budo? Alan responded later in one of his post: Please note that I quoted legend as the source for this. I did not say that I believed this legend. Of course, you may believe if you wish, just as I believe that King Arthur pulled a sword from a lump of rock. This info is something new for me, regarding that the form of pasopati which is more complicated than the form of simple dhapur of jalak budo. These pictures below are only showing the three kerises with dhapur pasopati, and one keris with dhapur jalak budo which is believed by most keris lovers in Java, as "the older form of keris" in the past... Ganjawulung |
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10th September 2007, 05:38 AM
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Pak Ganja, I suspect we may have a slight language difficulty here.
The fact that legend attributes dapur Pasopati to an origin in the year 152 Saka does not mean that dapur Pasopati is older than the buda form of keris. It means only that according to legendary belief dapur Pasopati dates from Saka 152. This is legend Pak Ganja. Legend. Legends can and sometimes do claim absolutely unbelieveable things. It is best not to confuse legend with fact. Source of the information is the Damartaji reprint of "Buku Gambar Dhapuripun Dhuwung Saha Waos" |
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10th September 2007, 09:56 AM
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Yes, the original copy of the book is now in the hand of Mr Haryono Guritno - the writer of Keris Jawa, Antara Mistik dan Nalar. But according to Damartaji (Keris Association of Jakarta) they never printed or even reprinted that Ronggowarsito book. Damartaji only printed, and reprinted the book "Dhapur" which keris illustration, was written by Kanjeng Gusti Pangeran Hario (KGPH) Hadiwijoyo -- an intelectual, son of the late King Paku Buwono X. He once studied in Leiden, Holland and had a vast knowledge on keris at that time. But this book on "Dhapur" did not mention on the creator of certain dapurs, such as pasopati. For me it is interesting to know, that dhapur keris Pasopati actualy was created in the early era of the 3rd century... While, according to my "limiting belief" from oral tradition, keris (jalak) budo, and of course some other kinds of betok budo -- which has more simple details (ricikan) on keris, is one of the oldest form of Javanese keris. Some evidence (old kerises which bear dhapur betok or jalak budo), supposed to come from Singasari era (13th century), or earlier. Pasopati -- straight keris with such sophisticated details of two sogokan, sekar kacang pogok (not a full kembang kacang), and double greneng or greneng sungsun -- is one of favorit dhapur among keris collectors. Ganjawulung |
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Hybrid Mode
