Tibetan Metalwork Timeline

rand · 9th September 2007, 06:12 PM

18th Century Tibetan Saddle, pierced ironwork covered with gold and silver koftgari.

rand

rand · 9th September 2007, 06:15 PM

19th Century Tibetan Saddle. Made from bronze covered with gold gilt.

rand

kai · 10th September 2007, 12:03 AM

Hello Rand,

Thanks for posting these examples!

BTW, are these from a similar area? I understand that Tibet always had quite distinct regions (with differing ethnic groups and vastly divergent influences from neighboring countries and/or immigrants) and I'd suppose that these were reflected in artwork?

Regards,
Kai

rand · 10th September 2007, 12:29 AM

Hi Kai,

Ususally the references for where a Tibetan example of pierced ironwork is from refer to the Derge Valley (pronounced Dur-gay) and even call it Derge work sometimes. More is being published about this type work now, there were also examles made in the Chinese workshops, including the royal workshops as gifts for Tibetan high ranking men. By the way this valley was usually in China.

These types of metalwork were not signed, not even pieces made for royalty, sometimes they were numbered in the Chinese Royal workshop. For that reason some objects are very datable to a particular ruler or reign.

There has been no difinitive study done that parallels Oakshotts, the "Archeology of Weapons" Sword. Where a systematic chronology of design has was determnined by camparisons to datable art, effigies, stained glass and archeology.

Would be more difficult in general with Tibetan art as similar designs were used over hundreds of years. Even so, different reigns with follow different styles that over time will eventually be in a chronological order.

Attched photo is a Chinese or tibetan saddle circa 1400...

This date is according to Donald Larocca, talked with him on the phone about and believe he thinks the early date attributed for this saddle a bit ambitious. But getting a theory out there to be criticized and fall or stand up is what its all about.....

rand

rand · 10th September 2007, 12:31 AM

Circa 1300 Mongolian saddle plate....

rand

rand · 10th September 2007, 12:46 AM

This Chinese saddle from the Qianlong Dynasty (1736-95) and from royal workshop, is numbered as was custom for some royal objexcts but no signature of maker.

You see how it can get confusing to date and determine origen.

rand

dennee · 11th September 2007, 08:01 PM

Particularly if you are going to look at cast ritual objects in addition to the filigree type of work, you should probably look at sources on Newari metalwork in addition to those on Chinese and Tibetan.

9th September 2007, 06:12 PM	#1
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	18th Century Tibetan Saddle 18th Century Tibetan Saddle, pierced ironwork covered with gold and silver koftgari. rand Attached Images

9th September 2007, 06:15 PM	#2
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	19th Century Tibetan Saddle 19th Century Tibetan Saddle. Made from bronze covered with gold gilt. rand Attached Images

10th September 2007, 12:29 AM	#4
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Derge Valley Hi Kai, Ususally the references for where a Tibetan example of pierced ironwork is from refer to the Derge Valley (pronounced Dur-gay) and even call it Derge work sometimes. More is being published about this type work now, there were also examles made in the Chinese workshops, including the royal workshops as gifts for Tibetan high ranking men. By the way this valley was usually in China. These types of metalwork were not signed, not even pieces made for royalty, sometimes they were numbered in the Chinese Royal workshop. For that reason some objects are very datable to a particular ruler or reign. There has been no difinitive study done that parallels Oakshotts, the "Archeology of Weapons" Sword. Where a systematic chronology of design has was determnined by camparisons to datable art, effigies, stained glass and archeology. Would be more difficult in general with Tibetan art as similar designs were used over hundreds of years. Even so, different reigns with follow different styles that over time will eventually be in a chronological order. Attched photo is a Chinese or tibetan saddle circa 1400... This date is according to Donald Larocca, talked with him on the phone about and believe he thinks the early date attributed for this saddle a bit ambitious. But getting a theory out there to be criticized and fall or stand up is what its all about..... rand Attached Images Last edited by rand; 10th September 2007 at 06:02 AM.

10th September 2007, 12:31 AM	#5
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Circa 1300 saddle plate Circa 1300 Mongolian saddle plate.... rand Attached Images

10th September 2007, 12:46 AM	#6
rand Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Virginia Posts: 539	Chinese Saddle This Chinese saddle from the Qianlong Dynasty (1736-95) and from royal workshop, is numbered as was custom for some royal objexcts but no signature of maker. You see how it can get confusing to date and determine origen. rand Attached Images

10th September 2007, 12:03 AM	#3
kai Member Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 3,255	Hello Rand, Thanks for posting these examples! BTW, are these from a similar area? I understand that Tibet always had quite distinct regions (with differing ethnic groups and vastly divergent influences from neighboring countries and/or immigrants) and I'd suppose that these were reflected in artwork? Regards, Kai

11th September 2007, 08:01 PM	#7
dennee Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: College Park, MD Posts: 186	Particularly if you are going to look at cast ritual objects in addition to the filigree type of work, you should probably look at sources on Newari metalwork in addition to those on Chinese and Tibetan.