A sucker is born every minute!

asomotif · 6th September 2007, 02:18 PM

A very good point by Ariel.
but indeed I also get slightly irrititated when I see people spending money on fakes or wronlgy described items, and surely in the past I have warned both sellers as buyers/bidders ocassionaly.

Problem is that we forumites often have a lot of knowledge on weapons

The majority of the people only know what they are buying because the sellers tells them what it is. Ans if he tells a nice story they buy it.

Jim McDougall · 6th September 2007, 03:46 PM

Wise words from our resident ebay observer

!
I do agree that there is a degree of responsibility borne by the consumer, especially in the case of antiques of any kind. We have to remember that anyone selling something will often put on a spin, either by embellishment or omission as well. It is well known that many sellers/dealers use varying degrees of bait and always hope for wide eyed, empassioned enthusiasts who either ignore what they know hoping for a bargain or simply do not have adequate knowledge nor research done to avoid misfortune in a purchase.
In retail consuming, the term is 'fine print', in antique purchasing we know the term well...caveat emptor!

Thats why the forum is here, to discuss and learn, and hopefully help in avoiding potentially expensive misteakes!

Best regards,
Jim

kronckew · 6th September 2007, 04:12 PM

i've warned a few sellers on ebay, where they were blatently wrong. they do not appreciate it. there was a "19c. indo-persian Kard" recently that i emailed the seller, a dealer, that it was in fact a north african bou saddi knife, gave him a link to the forum discussions on them, and a picture of one here that looked almost exactly like the one being sold. his response was, 'possibly, but the collector who sold it to me said it was a persian kard.' i replied that collectors were known to be wrong, pointed him at another dealer that had yet another one for sale on ebay, but properly id'd as an algerian bou saddi knife. it did no good i am sure. honesty does not get the big auction bucks. i did not bother to say that the carved and painted circles on the handle looked quite new, as did the handle itself and the nice clean red leather scabbard.

if they are dishonest you won't change their mind, or if their brother's cousins friends automechanic thinks it's an authentic Iroquois dagger from the revolutionary war, you ain't gonna change their mind either. they believe what they want. the ones it might help are those who are honest and say they are not sure what it is and have an open mind and an interest.

Andrew · 6th September 2007, 07:32 PM

The only thing I've done in recent years is contact sellers that blatently plagiarize something I personally wrote (or collaborated on) for an item's description.

I've never received any response to that type of communication.

Bill M · 6th September 2007, 07:46 PM

VANDOO · 6th September 2007, 09:00 PM

"YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM DRINK"

MY FAVORITE STORY OF THAT TYPE IS.

I WAS AT A LOCAL GUN SHOW AND SAW A DEALER WITH A VERY LARGE PIECE OF SAMOAN TAPPA CLOTH. WHEN I WENT OVER TO LOOK AT IT HE HAD IT IDENTIFED AS A RARE SOUIX WAR BLANKET AND HAD A VERY HIGH PRICE ON IT. I TOLD HIM WHAT IT REALLY WAS EVEN EXPLAINING THE WAY IT WAS MADE AND THE MATERIALS USED AND SOME OF THE DESIGNS, PRICE WAS NOT MENTIONED.
I WENT BACK BY HIS BOOTH THE NEXT DAY AND LOOKED AT IT AND NOTHING HAD BEEN CHANGED. I AM SURE SOUIX WILL BRING MORE MONEY THAN SAMOAN TAPA SO HE WAS NOT ABOUT TO CHANGE IT EVEN IF HE KNEW I WAS RIGHT. PERHAPS HE WAS TAKEN BY SOMEONE WHEN HE BOUGHT IT AND WAS DETERMINED TO HANG ON TO IT AND NOT LOSE MONEY AND HOPE TO UNLOAD IT ON SOME OTHER SUCKER. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR PEOPLE TO IGNORE ADVICE GIVEN OR ARGUE AS THEY DON'T WANT TO ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG.

VARIOUS TYPES OF SCAMS ARE BECOMING MORE COMMON ON EBAY AS THE PENALTYS ARE SMALL AND THE POTENTIAL FOR PROFIT GOOD. THIS YEAR I HAVE HAD THE FIRST TWO EBAY SELLERS TAKE MY MONEY AND THEN FOLD UP THEIR TENTS AND DISSAPEAR INTO THE NIGHT. EBAY WAS OF NO HELP AND THE SELLER NEVER DID ANSWER ANY EMAILS OR SEND MY ITEMS, I DID WATCH AND SEE THE FEEDBACK GO DOWN TO LOWER THAN CONGRESS CURRENT RATEINGS SO THAT TELLS ME I WAS NOT ALONE. THE SELLER WILL NO DOUBT BE FREE TO OPEN UP AGAIN UNDER ANOTHER NAME AND ADDRESS AND DO IT AGAIN IN FUTURE. ONE SELLER WAS IN BORNEO AND THE OTHER WAS IN CHINA, THE ONE IN CHINA WAS SELLING UNDER 3 DIFFERENT NAMES AND UNLOADED A LOT OF MERCHANDISE. PERHAPS CHINA IS TRYING TO GET A REPUTATION LIKE NIGERIA FOR SCAMS, FRAUD, CONS AND RIP OFFS.

Bill M · 6th September 2007, 09:07 PM

There seem to be two broad categories of sellers. Those that know they are selling fakes and those that have been misinformed. Usually neither want to hear our truth.

My favorite story, Barry, is about the boy scout who comes home beat up. His mother asked him what happened? He said, "I was trying to help an old lady cross the street and she didn't want to go!"

I usually fail -- in fact I am failing right now by writing this -- I TRY NOT to offer unsolicited advice.

The Berbers have a saying, "He who tells the truth better have one foot in the stirrup!"

spiral · 6th September 2007, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VANDOO

". ONE SELLER WAS IN BORNEO AND THE OTHER WAS IN CHINA, THE ONE IN CHINA WAS SELLING UNDER 3 DIFFERENT NAMES AND UNLOADED A LOT OF MERCHANDISE. PERHAPS CHINA IS TRYING TO GET A REPUTATION LIKE NIGERIA FOR SCAMS, FRAUD, CONS AND RIP OFFS.

Those 2 plus South Africa, Malaya & Ukraine are all such high risks I wont buy from them & have risked negative feedback by saying cash only to buyers from them, despite usualy saying paypal only.

Just look up credit card Fraud & see who tops the lists, mostly its the same for all web Fraud. My local Brit. post office say 45% of parcels sent to south Africa are reported as not delivered & claims made against the senders or Insaurance.

Sad thing is when Ive pointed out fakes to the ebay sellers, the few honest ones, who are big enough to accept the evidence I offer & who change their discription to say theve been told it fake dont even get a buyer usualy. Lies usualy pay 3x to 4x the truth on ebay sadley. {for kukris anyway.}

Spiral

6th September 2007, 02:18 PM	#1
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	A very good point by Ariel. but indeed I also get slightly irrititated when I see people spending money on fakes or wronlgy described items, and surely in the past I have warned both sellers as buyers/bidders ocassionaly. Problem is that we forumites often have a lot of knowledge on weapons The majority of the people only know what they are buying because the sellers tells them what it is. Ans if he tells a nice story they buy it.

6th September 2007, 03:46 PM	#2
Jim McDougall Arms Historian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Route 66 Posts: 10,292	Wise words from our resident ebay observer ! I do agree that there is a degree of responsibility borne by the consumer, especially in the case of antiques of any kind. We have to remember that anyone selling something will often put on a spin, either by embellishment or omission as well. It is well known that many sellers/dealers use varying degrees of bait and always hope for wide eyed, empassioned enthusiasts who either ignore what they know hoping for a bargain or simply do not have adequate knowledge nor research done to avoid misfortune in a purchase. In retail consuming, the term is 'fine print', in antique purchasing we know the term well...caveat emptor! Thats why the forum is here, to discuss and learn, and hopefully help in avoiding potentially expensive misteakes! Best regards, Jim

6th September 2007, 04:12 PM	#3
kronckew Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Room 101, Glos. UK Posts: 4,224	i've warned a few sellers on ebay, where they were blatently wrong. they do not appreciate it. there was a "19c. indo-persian Kard" recently that i emailed the seller, a dealer, that it was in fact a north african bou saddi knife, gave him a link to the forum discussions on them, and a picture of one here that looked almost exactly like the one being sold. his response was, 'possibly, but the collector who sold it to me said it was a persian kard.' i replied that collectors were known to be wrong, pointed him at another dealer that had yet another one for sale on ebay, but properly id'd as an algerian bou saddi knife. it did no good i am sure. honesty does not get the big auction bucks. i did not bother to say that the carved and painted circles on the handle looked quite new, as did the handle itself and the nice clean red leather scabbard. if they are dishonest you won't change their mind, or if their brother's cousins friends automechanic thinks it's an authentic Iroquois dagger from the revolutionary war, you ain't gonna change their mind either. they believe what they want. the ones it might help are those who are honest and say they are not sure what it is and have an open mind and an interest.

6th September 2007, 07:32 PM	#4
Andrew Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: USA Posts: 1,725	The only thing I've done in recent years is contact sellers that blatently plagiarize something I personally wrote (or collaborated on) for an item's description. I've never received any response to that type of communication.

6th September 2007, 07:46 PM	#5
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599

6th September 2007, 09:00 PM	#6
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	"YOU CAN LEAD A HORSE TO WATER BUT YOU CANNOT MAKE HIM DRINK" MY FAVORITE STORY OF THAT TYPE IS. I WAS AT A LOCAL GUN SHOW AND SAW A DEALER WITH A VERY LARGE PIECE OF SAMOAN TAPPA CLOTH. WHEN I WENT OVER TO LOOK AT IT HE HAD IT IDENTIFED AS A RARE SOUIX WAR BLANKET AND HAD A VERY HIGH PRICE ON IT. I TOLD HIM WHAT IT REALLY WAS EVEN EXPLAINING THE WAY IT WAS MADE AND THE MATERIALS USED AND SOME OF THE DESIGNS, PRICE WAS NOT MENTIONED. I WENT BACK BY HIS BOOTH THE NEXT DAY AND LOOKED AT IT AND NOTHING HAD BEEN CHANGED. I AM SURE SOUIX WILL BRING MORE MONEY THAN SAMOAN TAPA SO HE WAS NOT ABOUT TO CHANGE IT EVEN IF HE KNEW I WAS RIGHT. PERHAPS HE WAS TAKEN BY SOMEONE WHEN HE BOUGHT IT AND WAS DETERMINED TO HANG ON TO IT AND NOT LOSE MONEY AND HOPE TO UNLOAD IT ON SOME OTHER SUCKER. IT IS NOT UNUSUAL FOR PEOPLE TO IGNORE ADVICE GIVEN OR ARGUE AS THEY DON'T WANT TO ADMIT THEY ARE WRONG. VARIOUS TYPES OF SCAMS ARE BECOMING MORE COMMON ON EBAY AS THE PENALTYS ARE SMALL AND THE POTENTIAL FOR PROFIT GOOD. THIS YEAR I HAVE HAD THE FIRST TWO EBAY SELLERS TAKE MY MONEY AND THEN FOLD UP THEIR TENTS AND DISSAPEAR INTO THE NIGHT. EBAY WAS OF NO HELP AND THE SELLER NEVER DID ANSWER ANY EMAILS OR SEND MY ITEMS, I DID WATCH AND SEE THE FEEDBACK GO DOWN TO LOWER THAN CONGRESS CURRENT RATEINGS SO THAT TELLS ME I WAS NOT ALONE. THE SELLER WILL NO DOUBT BE FREE TO OPEN UP AGAIN UNDER ANOTHER NAME AND ADDRESS AND DO IT AGAIN IN FUTURE. ONE SELLER WAS IN BORNEO AND THE OTHER WAS IN CHINA, THE ONE IN CHINA WAS SELLING UNDER 3 DIFFERENT NAMES AND UNLOADED A LOT OF MERCHANDISE. PERHAPS CHINA IS TRYING TO GET A REPUTATION LIKE NIGERIA FOR SCAMS, FRAUD, CONS AND RIP OFFS.

6th September 2007, 09:07 PM	#7
Bill M Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: USA Georgia Posts: 1,599	There seem to be two broad categories of sellers. Those that know they are selling fakes and those that have been misinformed. Usually neither want to hear our truth. My favorite story, Barry, is about the boy scout who comes home beat up. His mother asked him what happened? He said, "I was trying to help an old lady cross the street and she didn't want to go!" I usually fail -- in fact I am failing right now by writing this -- I TRY NOT to offer unsolicited advice. The Berbers have a saying, "He who tells the truth better have one foot in the stirrup!"