SUASA Copper/Gold or Gold/Copper alloy

asomotif · 5th September 2007, 03:26 PM

and one more picture.

asomotif · 5th September 2007, 03:28 PM

VANDOO · 5th September 2007, 08:07 PM

I HAD READ A FORMULA FOR IT SOMEWHERE A FEW YEARS AGO BUT UNFORTUNATELY DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS NOW OR WHERE I SAW IT.
IT USED OLD COINS AND GAVE THE DENOMINATINS OF THE GOLD COINS AND SILVER COINS AND THE NUMBERS TO BE MELTED DOWN TO FORM SWASSA. I THINK THE COINS WERE DUTCH, IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO FIND OUT THE WEIGHT AND PURITY OF THE COINS USED AND THEN USE GOLD AND SILVER INSTEAD OF OLD COINS AS IT WAS DONE IN THE PAST WHEN THE COINS WERE READILY AVAILABLE. IF I RUN ACROSS IT IN THE FUTURE AGAIN I WILL LET YOU KNOW, PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE MAY REMEMBER AS I DID SHARE THE INFO WITH SOME.GOOD LUCK

Tim Simmons · 5th September 2007, 08:13 PM

low quality really. http://www.jewelryexpert.com/articles/Pinchbeck.htm

David · 5th September 2007, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Simmons

low quality really. http://www.jewelryexpert.com/articles/Pinchbeck.htm

From what i can gather from this article "Pinchbeck" doesn't contain any real gold. This is not the case with suassa.

asomotif · 6th September 2007, 08:34 AM

thanks Michael for these acurate numbers !

I am not sure if Suassa should be considered cheap.
Surely gold is more expensive, but with the present copper (56%) prices...

I believe the japanese also use some similar alloys in decorating their tsuba's etc. any info on that?

Battara · 7th September 2007, 08:26 PM

Acutally it depends on the color wanted. VVV is correct for some swassa, others are different depending on if you want orange, red, white'ish, etc. When a friend and I made swassa several years ago, it was roughly 1/3 gold and 2/3 copper with some silver. Some even use zinc for a greenish color, though rare.

Here is an example of what I mean. The orange bands on the hilt are swassa and the orange bands on the scabbard are the ones we made. I did the rest of the scabbard work (the second one I ever made).

VVV · 5th September 2007, 08:16 PM

Willem,

It's 25% gold, 19% silver and 56% copper.

Michael

ThePepperSkull · 25th May 2011, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VVV

Willem,

It's 25% gold, 19% silver and 56% copper.

Michael

Very interesting. Does this recipe for suasa vary depending on region, or is this the standard for what we usually see?

A. G. Maisey · 25th May 2011, 06:11 AM

Suasa was made and used over a very wide area at a time when there was no stardardisation of anything across this area.

The component parts of suasa vary.

I have a Lombok or Bali suasa pendok that tests as 14ct.

I have a Palembang suasa pendok that tests as slightly less.

I have a mendak that tests as 10ct.

I have several other examples of suasa that have not been tested and that vary in colour from the ones I have had tested, and from each other.

Gavin Nugent · 25th May 2011, 08:14 AM

Another example as requested.

Gav

VVV · 25th May 2011, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePepperSkull

Very interesting. Does this recipe for suasa vary depending on region, or is this the standard for what we usually see?

My recipe was for Aceh, the same region as Willem's rencong comes from.

Michael

A. G. Maisey · 25th May 2011, 01:57 PM

Gav, gilding was very common in Jawa and Bali, and is still available in Jawa. I'm not talking gold plate, I'm talking fire gilding.I don't know about Sumatera.

5th September 2007, 03:26 PM	#1
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	and one more picture. Attached Images

5th September 2007, 03:28 PM	#2
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	oops wrong fourm / should be on general discussion

7th September 2007, 08:26 PM	#7
Battara EAAF Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 7,280	Acutally it depends on the color wanted. VVV is correct for some swassa, others are different depending on if you want orange, red, white'ish, etc. When a friend and I made swassa several years ago, it was roughly 1/3 gold and 2/3 copper with some silver. Some even use zinc for a greenish color, though rare. Here is an example of what I mean. The orange bands on the hilt are swassa and the orange bands on the scabbard are the ones we made. I did the rest of the scabbard work (the second one I ever made). Attached Images Last edited by Battara; 7th September 2007 at 08:40 PM.

25th May 2011, 08:14 AM	#11
Gavin Nugent Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,818	another Another example as requested. Gav Attached Images

5th September 2007, 08:07 PM	#3
VANDOO (deceased) Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: OKLAHOMA, USA Posts: 3,138	I HAD READ A FORMULA FOR IT SOMEWHERE A FEW YEARS AGO BUT UNFORTUNATELY DON'T REMEMBER WHAT IT WAS NOW OR WHERE I SAW IT. IT USED OLD COINS AND GAVE THE DENOMINATINS OF THE GOLD COINS AND SILVER COINS AND THE NUMBERS TO BE MELTED DOWN TO FORM SWASSA. I THINK THE COINS WERE DUTCH, IT SHOULD BE POSSIBLE TO FIND OUT THE WEIGHT AND PURITY OF THE COINS USED AND THEN USE GOLD AND SILVER INSTEAD OF OLD COINS AS IT WAS DONE IN THE PAST WHEN THE COINS WERE READILY AVAILABLE. IF I RUN ACROSS IT IN THE FUTURE AGAIN I WILL LET YOU KNOW, PERHAPS SOMEONE ELSE MAY REMEMBER AS I DID SHARE THE INFO WITH SOME.GOOD LUCK

5th September 2007, 08:13 PM	#4
Tim Simmons Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: What is still UK Posts: 5,854	low quality really. http://www.jewelryexpert.com/articles/Pinchbeck.htm

6th September 2007, 08:34 AM	#6
asomotif Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 2,235	thanks Michael for these acurate numbers ! I am not sure if Suassa should be considered cheap. Surely gold is more expensive, but with the present copper (56%) prices... I believe the japanese also use some similar alloys in decorating their tsuba's etc. any info on that?

5th September 2007, 08:16 PM	#8
VVV Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Sweden Posts: 1,637	Willem, It's 25% gold, 19% silver and 56% copper. Michael

25th May 2011, 06:11 AM	#10
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Suasa was made and used over a very wide area at a time when there was no stardardisation of anything across this area. The component parts of suasa vary. I have a Lombok or Bali suasa pendok that tests as 14ct. I have a Palembang suasa pendok that tests as slightly less. I have a mendak that tests as 10ct. I have several other examples of suasa that have not been tested and that vary in colour from the ones I have had tested, and from each other.

25th May 2011, 01:57 PM	#13
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 7,015	Gav, gilding was very common in Jawa and Bali, and is still available in Jawa. I'm not talking gold plate, I'm talking fire gilding.I don't know about Sumatera.