Could this be Indonesian ? or Dutch?

[tom hyle]

Can we have any sort of reasons why this is simply not a tombak? I'm not getting it. It very closely resembles tombak blades I've seen, without the drawn-on bolster (metuk?)
The thing that lookes European to me is the way the handle tapers smoothly right into the bolster.
No real thoughts on the two mars on the bolster, other than they look more to me like something partially forged out than later vice damage, etc?
Wow, Puff; Now I guess maybe my big spear is Siamese, after all........Jimpul, if you're here; take note
Likewise, budiak can be a tightly construed term. For instance, I am told if hte blade does not have a "panel" seperated by grooves etc. it is not technically a budiak. Budiak as such aside, do we have reason to think this cannot be a S. PI spear point?
Sounds like it might have a thick tang; possibly only the base of a long one that tapered.
The long-tanged spear is AFAIKnew a uniquely Oceanic E Asian technology? Now I must consided my Thai spear. Joy

[David]

Originally Posted by tom hyle

Can we have any sort of reasons why this is simply not a tombak? I'm not getting it. It very closely resembles tombak blades I've seen, without the drawn-on bolster (metuk?)

Tom, i think you answered your own question here. No metuk, not a tombak.

[tom hyle]

No, and for at least two reasons, each equally valid.
A/ if it is not a tombak per se with no metuk that goes a long way from saying there are not such spears, perhaps by a different name, in Indonesia, and {([I think this was B;.......])} in fact I have seen such blades, which had either lost, or never had a drawn on bolster (likewis for kris, BTW); so, as with what I'd already said about budiak, defining the term in a tightly constrained manner may be unhelpful in this particular discussion.
B? Snap, I forgot B, and your post isn';t showing in the bit I can read below. Maybe I somehow included B in A; I don't know; lost track of the thought.....

Additional: I have a reason it is not a budiak (broadly construed, etc.). Budiaks AFAIK have rhomboid (ie. diamond) cross section. This blade is midribbed, at least a the base, with a wide, semicircular rib, like a tombak.
It appears to be a tombak, mounted as a dagger. They often are.
Just for reference, the Thai(?) spear I mentioned is one of the leaf-bladed ones; one inch thick at the blade base, and with a 14" tang love, spear, love

[David]

Tom, i didn't say it wasn't from Indonesia, just that it isn't a tombak. I never said that there aren't such spears there by a different name.
If you have a photo of a tombak without a metuk i would love to see it. I am always open to having my mind changed.

[katana]

Thank you Tom and David for the further posts

personally I am convinced that this is a re-mounted spear head and almost certainly of SEA origins, whether this was hilted (or even re-hilted) in Europe is another story. I have been unable to find a similar dagger described as European ....all the examples I have found (with very similar features to my own) have been attributed to SEA (some with pamor... most without)
The 'balance' and solid construction seems to suggest that this dagger was made with care for a purely functional use....to stab. I have considered this to be a 'hunting dirk' but it really does not fit the 'profile'.

I suppose, with weapons that are not readily easy to ID, you have to weigh up the comments of others, your own knowledge and the 'feel' of the weapon in question.....until proved otherwise.

[kronckew]

are we letting our own hopes and experiences keep us from thinking outside our 'box'?





some pretty letter openers out there. saw a nice victorian one with a stag grip on ebay recently

[katana]

I take your point kronckew...we should all think 'out of the box'......but this is no paper knife....mid rib is 7mm distally tapered to 3mm just before the tip. It's too heavy duty both in weight and construction at approx. 34cms long (9cms (3 3/4") longer than the longest length stated in the posted examples) it would be 'cumbersome' and the blade perhaps a little thick for effective 'envelope opening'.

I take your point about the overall shape of the paper knife blades...but the design (being symmetrical) allows use by either right or left 'handers'. The blade on mine has a very heavy 'tang', as mentioned before, as the balance point is where blade meets handle. A paper knife likely would have a 'weedy' rat tail or half tang fixed by adhesive 'resin'.

As usual (with knives I am not certain about) I 'tested' this dagger on various thicknesses of ply wood to assertain strengh and 'penetration'. This easily holes 3/8" ply and the point is visible on 1/2" with no damage to the knife at all. I am certain that a paper knife would not perform as well. Spark testing the blade shows high carbon content and is not 'stainless steel' which the majority of paper knives would be (to prevent rust marks on your letters, and no oil marks either from a knife with a properly maintained carbon blade)


Any way I've already got a paper knife in my collection


Regards David