Bontoc Shield

Mick · 11th March 2005, 05:00 AM

I think that these are the same people who sold a very good looking Kalinga piece about a week or so ago. I think the Kalinga piece went for over $800, which is a good price for one of these things. If so, this shield was put on at the same time with I think a $350 opening bid. I guess it didn't sell.

It looks like it is real and has a little age. I actually looks older than the one that I have. I don't knock real items made in the traditional way even if they are relativley new. We can't all afford or even get hold of 18 or 19 century material. There is not that much available. After all this material self destructs unless it is well taken care of.

mmontoro · 11th March 2005, 09:22 AM

Good memory, Mick. Here is a link to the Kalinga piece, which was distictive in style and also in great condition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7300912396

Ian · 11th March 2005, 12:40 PM

Yes, that Kalinga shield is a very nice example. It has the same "glossy" look as the Bontoc shield. Seems that they have both been treated with a similar coating of wax or polish. Quite an attractive finish, but probably not original.

Conogre · 11th March 2005, 02:09 PM

The kalinga shield looked fairly authentic to me, while I know for a fact that the Bontoc shield is not......and they did NOT come from the same seller, by the way.
In fact, one member asked me about an opinion during the sale and I told him that it's a reproduction, with the source seller having sent me a photo of about 1/2 dozen that he has and he told me that they were repros when he offered me one......I didn't say conclusively, but the strong wording about "it will get there when it gets there" made me suspect that the seller was pre-selling pieces before ordering them from the Philippines only claiming they were much older than they were.
I also HAVE one exactly like it that I bought about 4-5 years ago for $45 from a dealer in Manilla about the same time I bought that large batch(25 ) of Mindenao pieces, a couple older but most made in the past 30 years or so.
Can you say "ouch!"?
I certainly did and also learned a lesson about how much prices can change in just 4-5 years! LOL! Ouch,ouch,ouch,ouch!
Mike

Naga Basuki · 11th March 2005, 03:32 PM

I was interested in it until I consulted several Forum members who suggested it was not old. Recently made and patinated.

And I quote:

"I can not be sure, but from the photos (To be sure I need to see it in
person) I would say that the ebay shield is not very old, and not made for use. It is very clean and crisp with no signs of age or use. It looks to be a bit of a harder wood as you can see the tool marks. The older ones are some kind of fiberous palm wood, and the adz marks are not present. In the Phillipines they have been making these for the market and they are very good at rattan weaving, and making the old dark patina as you can see on this one. I would not recomend this shield for your collection."

Bill · 11th March 2005, 04:58 PM

I have 2 of these shields. One seems to be quite a bit older & shows its use. The younger one seems to be made exactly the same way, but slightly smaller. I assume that there are 50 or more years of differance & likely more. Sad as it may be, the one that has never seen combat is hanging on the wall, the experienced one is in the closet. Love the old one, but I can get away (wife factor) with the newer one displayed.

Ian · 11th March 2005, 05:42 PM

Mike:

Thanks for your direct confirmation of my skepticism. These days I'm reluctant to come out and say publicly that something is not genuine, especially from pictures, but that Bontoc shield just did not look right for some reason — and you articulated well why it is not the real deal.

In the hand, the old ones are lighter than more recently made examples, reflecting different construction materials (as Mike said). Despite its size and bulk, my early 20th C. example of a Bontoc shield is really quite light and would be easily maneuvered for defensive purposes.

Ian.

11th March 2005, 05:00 AM	#1
Mick Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Orlando Posts: 104	I think that these are the same people who sold a very good looking Kalinga piece about a week or so ago. I think the Kalinga piece went for over $800, which is a good price for one of these things. If so, this shield was put on at the same time with I think a $350 opening bid. I guess it didn't sell. It looks like it is real and has a little age. I actually looks older than the one that I have. I don't knock real items made in the traditional way even if they are relativley new. We can't all afford or even get hold of 18 or 19 century material. There is not that much available. After all this material self destructs unless it is well taken care of.

11th March 2005, 09:22 AM	#2
mmontoro Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Posts: 91	Good memory, Mick. Here is a link to the Kalinga piece, which was distictive in style and also in great condition: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...tem=7300912396

11th March 2005, 12:40 PM	#3
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,363	Yes, that Kalinga shield is a very nice example. It has the same "glossy" look as the Bontoc shield. Seems that they have both been treated with a similar coating of wax or polish. Quite an attractive finish, but probably not original.

11th March 2005, 02:09 PM	#4
Conogre Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Clearwater, Florida Posts: 371	The kalinga shield looked fairly authentic to me, while I know for a fact that the Bontoc shield is not......and they did NOT come from the same seller, by the way. In fact, one member asked me about an opinion during the sale and I told him that it's a reproduction, with the source seller having sent me a photo of about 1/2 dozen that he has and he told me that they were repros when he offered me one......I didn't say conclusively, but the strong wording about "it will get there when it gets there" made me suspect that the seller was pre-selling pieces before ordering them from the Philippines only claiming they were much older than they were. I also HAVE one exactly like it that I bought about 4-5 years ago for $45 from a dealer in Manilla about the same time I bought that large batch(25 ) of Mindenao pieces, a couple older but most made in the past 30 years or so. Can you say "ouch!"? I certainly did and also learned a lesson about how much prices can change in just 4-5 years! LOL! Ouch,ouch,ouch,ouch! Mike

11th March 2005, 03:32 PM	#5
Naga Basuki Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Big old machine shop/foundry/warehouse in Atlanta GA USA Posts: 51	I was interested in it until I consulted several Forum members who suggested it was not old. Recently made and patinated. And I quote: "I can not be sure, but from the photos (To be sure I need to see it in person) I would say that the ebay shield is not very old, and not made for use. It is very clean and crisp with no signs of age or use. It looks to be a bit of a harder wood as you can see the tool marks. The older ones are some kind of fiberous palm wood, and the adz marks are not present. In the Phillipines they have been making these for the market and they are very good at rattan weaving, and making the old dark patina as you can see on this one. I would not recomend this shield for your collection."

11th March 2005, 04:58 PM	#6
Bill Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Chicago area Posts: 327	I have 2 of these shields. One seems to be quite a bit older & shows its use. The younger one seems to be made exactly the same way, but slightly smaller. I assume that there are 50 or more years of differance & likely more. Sad as it may be, the one that has never seen combat is hanging on the wall, the experienced one is in the closet. Love the old one, but I can get away (wife factor) with the newer one displayed.

11th March 2005, 05:42 PM	#7
Ian Vikingsword Staff Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The Aussie Bush Posts: 4,363	Mike: Thanks for your direct confirmation of my skepticism. These days I'm reluctant to come out and say publicly that something is not genuine, especially from pictures, but that Bontoc shield just did not look right for some reason — and you articulated well why it is not the real deal. In the hand, the old ones are lighter than more recently made examples, reflecting different construction materials (as Mike said). Despite its size and bulk, my early 20th C. example of a Bontoc shield is really quite light and would be easily maneuvered for defensive purposes. Ian.