Nube,and Nube Pics AND Of Course ??? :)

David · 28th August 2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PenangsangII

The ladrang sheath of the Jawanese keris was dug alright

No, I mean it came from one piece of wood, the sheath maker had to "dig" the wood deeply right to the sheath tip, which is extremely difficult.

Difficult for sure. I doubt i could do it.

However it doesn't appear to be very well executed and it is missing it's entire tail section which are my reasons for saying it leaves much to be desired.

Just so you don't get too confuse Skeeter, what Penangsang refers to as the "ferrule" on the Bugis keris is the same part that i called the pendokok.

skeeter70 · 28th August 2007, 03:34 PM

..First, thank ya'll! As stated, any and all info is appreciated! The info posted is new info to me, and will be to my friend also. Nah, $$$ value is of no importance, and thanks for letting me know that is against the rules, missed that! I stated that just to let everyone know I (he) was not one of "those", ya'll know what I mean Im sure.

Im just genuinely interested in anything about them. On the gun forums I belong to people are allowed to ask the value, but as expected they are new to the forums, and usually never post a pic or enough info to even get close to the actual value.

Already see that my friend had fallen for the myth (?) of them being dug.

I was thinking with what the maker had to work with as for as tools, the sheath would have been very difficult to make! ...and Keris, not "Kris"..

Thanks so much!

The metal work is awesome! The other pics Ive looked at here as well, some VERY nice knives! Boy, working metal to such a degree with limited tools and material is a feat unto itself, fascinating at the least! I wonder where/how they came upon/developed this technique? Wow!

Were these for decoritive/cerimonial purposes/fighting, or all three? Just what was their purpose? With metal probably being a valuable commodity back then, I can see why these would be passed on, makes sense. I assume they were highly prized by the families. I would imagine that there was only a select few "metal smiths" that learned and passed the technique down; in other words, not every Tom Dick and Harry new/practiced the metal working?

So the handle on the Jawa is facing the wrong direction in conjunction with the hilt? Should he attempt to turn the handle in the right direction, or leave it? Is it hard or "hazardous"

to turn the handle? Im am sure these seem like rather trivial questions, but not knowing anything about these....

A. G. Maisey · 28th August 2007, 10:51 PM

Actually its not all that difficult to hollow out a gandar, and to make a wrongko in one piece. Yes, it does require a degree of skill, but this skill is more in the shaping of the outside of the wrongko, than in cutting the hole inside.To make that long hole in the gandar you first drill with a long bit. In Jawa they use the old-time bow drill, but it is possible to do it with a long series bit in an electric drill.Once the hole is drilled you use a tool called a segrek to open up the hole to accomodate the blade.A segrek is a bit like a cross between a saw and a rasp that cuts on the draw stroke.It takes one days work for an average tukang to make a standard gandar.

This wrongko is worth saving, and perfectly saveable. It can be reshaped into the kacir form.Pic of example shown, it would not need to be exactly like the pic.

Skeeter, turning the handle can be either very easy or quiite difficult and dangerous. I suggest that you try to turn it while gripping the blade wrapped in a piece of cloth. Gently work it back and forth with increasing pressure, but don't get too strong in the wrist, because it is possible to break the tang and/or split the handle. If you can get a little bit of movement you may find that you can turn it to the correct position. Above all, do not force it when it is cold.
We normally remove a stuck handle by heating the base of the blade gently. A candle, a small kerosene lamp, or passing quickly and repeatedly through a propane torch flame will give sufficient heat. Hold the blade a couple of inches from where the heat is applied so you will know if it is getting too hot. Heating and then trying to move the handle backwards and forth will normally loosen up any stuck handle. You can clean off any smoke black with mineral turpentine.

28th August 2007, 03:34 PM	#2
skeeter70 Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Posts: 3	..First, thank ya'll! As stated, any and all info is appreciated! The info posted is new info to me, and will be to my friend also. Nah, $$$ value is of no importance, and thanks for letting me know that is against the rules, missed that! I stated that just to let everyone know I (he) was not one of "those", ya'll know what I mean Im sure. Im just genuinely interested in anything about them. On the gun forums I belong to people are allowed to ask the value, but as expected they are new to the forums, and usually never post a pic or enough info to even get close to the actual value. Already see that my friend had fallen for the myth (?) of them being dug. I was thinking with what the maker had to work with as for as tools, the sheath would have been very difficult to make! ...and Keris, not "Kris"..Thanks so much! The metal work is awesome! The other pics Ive looked at here as well, some VERY nice knives! Boy, working metal to such a degree with limited tools and material is a feat unto itself, fascinating at the least! I wonder where/how they came upon/developed this technique? Wow! Were these for decoritive/cerimonial purposes/fighting, or all three? Just what was their purpose? With metal probably being a valuable commodity back then, I can see why these would be passed on, makes sense. I assume they were highly prized by the families. I would imagine that there was only a select few "metal smiths" that learned and passed the technique down; in other words, not every Tom Dick and Harry new/practiced the metal working? So the handle on the Jawa is facing the wrong direction in conjunction with the hilt? Should he attempt to turn the handle in the right direction, or leave it? Is it hard or "hazardous" to turn the handle? Im am sure these seem like rather trivial questions, but not knowing anything about these....

28th August 2007, 10:51 PM	#3
A. G. Maisey Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 6,992	Actually its not all that difficult to hollow out a gandar, and to make a wrongko in one piece. Yes, it does require a degree of skill, but this skill is more in the shaping of the outside of the wrongko, than in cutting the hole inside.To make that long hole in the gandar you first drill with a long bit. In Jawa they use the old-time bow drill, but it is possible to do it with a long series bit in an electric drill.Once the hole is drilled you use a tool called a segrek to open up the hole to accomodate the blade.A segrek is a bit like a cross between a saw and a rasp that cuts on the draw stroke.It takes one days work for an average tukang to make a standard gandar. This wrongko is worth saving, and perfectly saveable. It can be reshaped into the kacir form.Pic of example shown, it would not need to be exactly like the pic. Skeeter, turning the handle can be either very easy or quiite difficult and dangerous. I suggest that you try to turn it while gripping the blade wrapped in a piece of cloth. Gently work it back and forth with increasing pressure, but don't get too strong in the wrist, because it is possible to break the tang and/or split the handle. If you can get a little bit of movement you may find that you can turn it to the correct position. Above all, do not force it when it is cold. We normally remove a stuck handle by heating the base of the blade gently. A candle, a small kerosene lamp, or passing quickly and repeatedly through a propane torch flame will give sufficient heat. Hold the blade a couple of inches from where the heat is applied so you will know if it is getting too hot. Heating and then trying to move the handle backwards and forth will normally loosen up any stuck handle. You can clean off any smoke black with mineral turpentine. Attached Images